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From: Pierre Abbat <phma@bezitopo.org>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Mini-rant: gismu place consistency
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2013 16:26:15 -0500
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On Saturday, March 09, 2013 07:13:55 Jonathan Jones wrote:
> As another example, all of the gismu of the measurement family have the
> exact same place structure: "x1 is x2 [units of measurement] by standard
> x3", and for non-metric: "x1 is x2 [units of measurement] in standard x3
> with sub-units x4", /except/ for mitre: "x1 is x2 meters in direction x3 =
by
> standard x4", which moves the typical x3 place to the x4 and places an
> additional "in direction" place in its stead, and minli: "x1 is x2 long
> local distance units with sub-units x3 in standard x4", which has the exa=
ct
> same places as it's brethren, except that the final two are in reverse
> order.
li'o=20
> Which only makes things worse in this scenario. Say we make an "alternati=
ve
> gismu" for mitre. First off, what shape should it have? {mitre} is arguab=
ly
> the best shape for the Lojban word for "meter". Secondly, how would
> convince people to stop using mitre and instead use this new word, when
> they've already learned {mitre}=3D"meter"? Would it not be simpler to mer=
ely
> say "From now on, the x3 place of mitre is the standard place, and the
> direction place is x4.", especially since mitre's x3 and x4 are so seldom
> used it wouldn't really affect the corpus, and would make it consistent
> with its brethren, thus making it easier to learn fully?

I think we should drop the direction place of "mitre" and the subunit place=
s.=20
I have no idea what to put in a subunit place, and the direction place coul=
d=20
be expressed with a preposition if appropriate.  "gucti" has just as much=
=20
reason to have a direction place as "mitre" does, but "caltre" has none, ev=
en=20
though by jvojva it has to have one if "mitre" does.

> 1) Take the whole of the gismu, possibly including the experimental ones,
> and group them into families. Species {badna}, Transportation {klama}, Mo=
de
> of Travel {cadzu}, Measurement {mitre}, and Comparatives {barda} are a fe=
w
> families I can think of off the top of my head. Species might need to be
> split into the kingdoms (animal, plant, etc.) just because of size.

There's no big problem with species. There are a few species words with a=
=20
third place (tirxu, mledi, lanme, mlafi'e) and one missing x2 (remna), whic=
h=20
should have it, as paleontologist talk about several species of Homo.

Pierre
--=20
When a barnacle settles down, its brain disintegrates.
J=E1 n=E3o percebe nada, j=E1 n=E3o percebe nada.

--=20
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