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Subject: [lojban] Noun-ness of {vindu}
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coi

{vindu} as written in the gimste appears extremely noun-ish, and seems to
implicitly contain a {ka'e}, which I find undesirable. If the definition
were reworded to make it seem more "active", then tacking on ka'e (or -ka'e
in a lujvo) would produce the current definition, which is more flexible.

Current definition:
vindu = x1 is poisonous/venomous/toxic/a toxin to x2.

Suggested definition:
vindu = x1 intoxicates/is a toxin affecting x2.

Also, are toxins intrinsically related to their effects? Can we say that
something is a toxin if it *does nothing*? I'd also suggest throwing in an
x3, a property of the x2, which is the effect of the toxin. The structure
of this new vindu is thus parallel to {xajmi}.

Furthermore, {vindu} as defined makes it seem  to have an unnecessarily
negative connotation. I feel that this word could be far more useful and
flexible if made a bit more general, along the lines of "x1 is a
substance/chemical unnaturally present/not normally in such levels in x2
with effects x3."

If {vindu} is more active, then it can be used to construct lujvo for
inebriation and use of other substances such as marijuana: {xalselvindu},
{marnyselvindu}.
This lujvo would equally include the effect place and would typically have
the structure: "rodyselvindu = x1 does (intention-agnostic) x2 (ka) under
the influence of substance broda".

The old definition of {vindu} is achieved with {vidyka'e}, "x1 is a
toxin/poison to x2 with potential effect(s) x3."

.i mi'e la tsani mu'o

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coi<div><br></div><div>{vindu} as written in the gimste appears extremely n=
oun-ish, and seems to implicitly contain a {ka&#39;e}, which I find undesir=
able. If the definition were reworded to make it seem more &quot;active&quo=
t;, then tacking on ka&#39;e (or -ka&#39;e in a lujvo) would produce the cu=
rrent definition, which is more flexible.</div>

<div><br></div><div>Current definition:</div><div>vindu =3D x1 is poisonous=
/venomous/toxic/a toxin to x2.</div><div><br></div><div>Suggested definitio=
n:</div><div>vindu =3D x1 intoxicates/is a toxin affecting x2.</div><div><b=
r>

</div><div>Also, are toxins intrinsically related to their effects? Can we =
say that something is a toxin if it *does nothing*? I&#39;d also suggest th=
rowing in an x3, a property of the x2, which is the effect of the toxin. Th=
e structure of this new vindu is thus parallel to {xajmi}.</div>

<div><br></div><div>Furthermore, {vindu} as defined makes it seem =A0to hav=
e an unnecessarily negative connotation. I feel that this word could be far=
 more useful and flexible if made a bit more general, along the lines of &q=
uot;x1 is a substance/chemical unnaturally present/not normally in such lev=
els in x2 with effects x3.&quot;</div>

<div><br></div><div>If {vindu} is more active, then it can be used to const=
ruct lujvo for inebriation and use of other substances such as marijuana: {=
xalselvindu}, {marnyselvindu}.</div><div>This lujvo would equally include t=
he effect place and would typically have the structure: &quot;rodyselvindu =
=3D x1 does (intention-agnostic) x2 (ka) under the influence of substance b=
roda&quot;.</div>

<div><br></div><div>The old definition of {vindu} is achieved with {vidyka&=
#39;e}, &quot;x1 is a toxin/poison to x2 with potential effect(s) x3.&quot;=
</div><div><br></div><div>.i mi&#39;e la tsani mu&#39;o</div>

<p></p>

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