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Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 07:36:00 -0700 (PDT)
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Subject: [lojban] Re: Noun-ness of {vindu}
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On Thursday, March 21, 2013 5:17:28 PM UTC+4, tsani wrote:
>
> coi
>
> {vindu} as written in the gimste appears extremely noun-ish, and seems to 
> implicitly contain a {ka'e}, which I find undesirable. If the definition 
> were reworded to make it seem more "active", then tacking on ka'e (or -ka'e 
> in a lujvo) would produce the current definition, which is more flexible.
>
> Current definition:
> vindu = x1 is poisonous/venomous/toxic/a toxin to x2.
>
> Suggested definition:
> vindu = x1 intoxicates/is a toxin affecting x2.
>

vindu is something that is capable (kakne) of intoxicating an organism (x2) 
under normal circumstances (e.g. the lack of antidote in it).


> Also, are toxins intrinsically related to their effects? Can we say that 
> something is a toxin if it *does nothing*? I'd also suggest throwing in an 
> x3, a property of the x2, which is the effect of the toxin. The structure 
> of this new vindu is thus parallel to {xajmi}.
>
> Furthermore, {vindu} as defined makes it seem  to have an unnecessarily 
> negative connotation. I feel that this word could be far more useful and 
> flexible if made a bit more general, along the lines of "x1 is a 
> substance/chemical unnaturally present/not normally in such levels in x2 
> with effects x3."
>
> If {vindu} is more active, then it can be used to construct lujvo for 
> inebriation and use of other substances such as marijuana: {xalselvindu}, 
> {marnyselvindu}.
> This lujvo would equally include the effect place and would typically have 
> the structure: "rodyselvindu = x1 does (intention-agnostic) x2 (ka) under 
> the influence of substance broda".
>
> The old definition of {vindu} is achieved with {vidyka'e}, "x1 is a 
> toxin/poison to x2 with potential effect(s) x3."
>
> .i mi'e la tsani mu'o
>

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<br><br>On Thursday, March 21, 2013 5:17:28 PM UTC+4, tsani wrote:<blockquo=
te class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left:=
 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">coi<div><br></div><div>{vindu} as writt=
en in the gimste appears extremely noun-ish, and seems to implicitly contai=
n a {ka'e}, which I find undesirable. If the definition were reworded to ma=
ke it seem more "active", then tacking on ka'e (or -ka'e in a lujvo) would =
produce the current definition, which is more flexible.</div>

<div><br></div><div>Current definition:</div><div>vindu =3D x1 is poisonous=
/venomous/toxic/a toxin to x2.</div><div><br></div><div>Suggested definitio=
n:</div><div>vindu =3D x1 intoxicates/is a toxin affecting x2.</div></block=
quote><div><br></div><div>vindu is something that is capable (kakne) of int=
oxicating an organism (x2) under normal circumstances (e.g. the lack of ant=
idote in it).</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: =
1ex;"><div><br>

</div><div>Also, are toxins intrinsically related to their effects? Can we =
say that something is a toxin if it *does nothing*? I'd also suggest throwi=
ng in an x3, a property of the x2, which is the effect of the toxin. The st=
ructure of this new vindu is thus parallel to {xajmi}.</div>

<div><br></div><div>Furthermore, {vindu} as defined makes it seem &nbsp;to =
have an unnecessarily negative connotation. I feel that this word could be =
far more useful and flexible if made a bit more general, along the lines of=
 "x1 is a substance/chemical unnaturally present/not normally in such level=
s in x2 with effects x3."</div>

<div><br></div><div>If {vindu} is more active, then it can be used to const=
ruct lujvo for inebriation and use of other substances such as marijuana: {=
xalselvindu}, {marnyselvindu}.</div><div>This lujvo would equally include t=
he effect place and would typically have the structure: "rodyselvindu =3D x=
1 does (intention-agnostic) x2 (ka) under the influence of substance broda"=
.</div>

<div><br></div><div>The old definition of {vindu} is achieved with {vidyka'=
e}, "x1 is a toxin/poison to x2 with potential effect(s) x3."</div><div><br=
></div><div>.i mi'e la tsani mu'o</div>
</blockquote>

<p></p>

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