Received: from mail-vc0-f191.google.com ([209.85.220.191]:41623) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1UIlJH-0001zu-Q8; Thu, 21 Mar 2013 12:38:45 -0700 Received: by mail-vc0-f191.google.com with SMTP id ha11sf1109848vcb.18 for ; Thu, 21 Mar 2013 12:37:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:received-spf:x-received :mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=lfKTUCzbLBpS4AgNKrKeNQB90oUspmkQz8bGX6L+QQU=; b=f7iaLKqovXI1qDUUvIwc+9UV7hoCIJEGDO3+ROn7rHCyixV72y/m0u4NiEZaqw1dDr I1egS0p8hA1E6uMHjKxvs/tizO9/CMXgmNGOz2KCH1ivrDDgGxoYSRu7JUI6209q0OpI Sz5zMz/oMKGuiGD96L4438oTy9dE3j+KUuYipzSksRbZkA03VqU0SUl7Lle7hh6jC4s+ zAWiqFdXAL+k/876R+GtVwqKvZzxxYtDyOHDgeZ04EgBCUcwjVBBVvYXVcaMzuaU0KZc aFRX99+kDu16XRW28QpZLe+SXSE8LZJ9ZeoB0Tq/vkpSMGFZ/NzdwOYTBZwtC4Un4F/D gVjg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:received-spf:x-received :mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=lfKTUCzbLBpS4AgNKrKeNQB90oUspmkQz8bGX6L+QQU=; b=MUjtVBmROo+5DYpPAJSF0f5j451lgSZoPlMMnvkUswQA68HNnKGsdInxvrKShxnBt6 P+e2KNWFYkmkSQjwLwp7k/B3Hq6NMD+SEouD3lPIyCpdu5Ep1UmEOf3+2GluJdpZW86v kDLOvmaYhjbrbXNyYhnvzFaUxqSLkDwZoqRwsAPa+D1KlKTXV+svwYFgg3rDuKf4D+Iv WNfqCSo3g8FWBpILojE9o5WdRISeauAaydBRp5J4eqRkk4Yuf5HKHJgT09tBDkXaCGOG T0JDGtiAKU/iI4zfayTbF3oT09KKtgbhBXUn/FB1DX4d4xE6GqbSb7wt5cOFgQ5/diUd 4BVg== X-Received: by 10.50.33.175 with SMTP id s15mr818115igi.8.1363894672942; Thu, 21 Mar 2013 12:37:52 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.209.67 with SMTP id mk3ls3358647igc.5.canary; Thu, 21 Mar 2013 12:37:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.43.136.5 with SMTP id ii5mr19607724icc.11.1363894671754; Thu, 21 Mar 2013 12:37:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oa0-f54.google.com (mail-oa0-f54.google.com [209.85.219.54]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id j7si434409igc.3.2013.03.21.12.37.51 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 21 Mar 2013 12:37:51 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of nictytan@gmail.com designates 209.85.219.54 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.219.54; Received: by mail-oa0-f54.google.com with SMTP id n12so3522833oag.27 for ; Thu, 21 Mar 2013 12:37:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.60.25.138 with SMTP id c10mr7823648oeg.12.1363894671612; Thu, 21 Mar 2013 12:37:51 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.113.200 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Mar 2013 12:37:29 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1363881306.5055.YahooMailNeo@web184401.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1363881306.5055.YahooMailNeo@web184401.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: Jacob Errington Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 15:37:29 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Noun-ness of {vindu} To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: nictytan@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of nictytan@gmail.com designates 209.85.219.54 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=nictytan@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8ff1c2fc69f0ad04d87479c1 X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --e89a8ff1c2fc69f0ad04d87479c1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On 21 March 2013 11:55, John E Clifford wrote: > "Intoxicate", while technically correct, gives a rather the wrong > impression. Generally, intoxication is thought of as a relatively pleasant > experience, a high, not (except, perhaps, in the very long run) a dangerous > one. > I think that I talk about that... Ah yes, I do. "Furthermore, {vindu} as defined makes it seem to have an unnecessarily negative connotation. I feel that this word could be far more useful and flexible if made a bit more general, along the lines of "x1 is a substance/chemical unnaturally present/not normally in such levels in x2 with effects x3." >{vindu} is pretty clearly meant to refer to something dangerous in the short run and thoroughly unpleasant, hence both "poison" and "venomous" and, indeed, "toxic" -- yew leaves, say. I'd stick with "poison" in the English. By putting a negative effect in the x3 I suggest, we end up with old-vindu. If we put in a positive effect, we can create meanings such as "high" or "drunk". Overall, making vindu more "active" and by adding in an x3, the word is far more useful. .i mi'e la tsani mu'o -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --e89a8ff1c2fc69f0ad04d87479c1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 21 March 2013 11:55, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Intoxicate", while technically correct, gives a rather = the wrong impression.=A0 Generally, intoxication is thought of as a relativ= ely pleasant experience, a high, not (except, perhaps, in the very long run= ) a dangerous one. =A0

I think that I talk about that... Ah yes, I do. "Furthermore, {vi= ndu} as defined makes it seem =A0to have an unnecessarily negative connotat= ion. I feel that this word could be far more useful and flexible if made a = bit more general, along the lines of "x1 is a substance/chemical unnat= urally present/not normally in such levels in x2 with effects x3."

>{vindu} is pretty clearly meant = to refer to something dangerous in the short run and thoroughly unpleasant,= hence both "poison" and "venomous" and, indeed, "= toxic" -- yew leaves, say.=A0=A0 I'd stick with "poison"= in the English.

<= span style=3D"font-family:'times new roman','new york',time= s,serif;font-size:15.555556297302246px">By putting a negative effect in the= x3 I suggest, we end up with old-vindu. If we put in a positive effect, we= can create meanings such as "high" or "drunk".<= /div>

Overall, making vindu more "active&q= uot; and by adding in an x3, the word is far more useful.

.i mi'e la tsani mu'o

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