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To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] what {me lo broda ku} means and why not allow {selbri NOI}
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la selpa'i cu cusku di'e
> Are you saying that {noi} and {poi} would have different uses as
> selbri/bridi relative clauses? I can see {poi} being a substitute for
> {gi'e}, and {noi} a bridi relative clause, but maybe there are uses for
> a {noi}-like gi'e or a restrictive bridi relative clause.

This is how I understand it:

For {poi}:

ko'a broda poi ke'a brode == ko'a broda gi'e brode

For {noi} I can see two possibilites:

(a) ko'a broda noi zo'e no'a == ko'a broda .i zo'e go'i
(b) ko'a broda noi brode ke'a == brode lo su'u ko'a broda

I think (b) is more useful and clearer.

(There is another option, and that is to make up that ke'a-GOhA. Then, 
both (3.1) and (3.2) can be expressed with it. Downside: new cmavo.)

Here are examples of each use:

(1) mi dansu poi lo nu do ke'a viska cu na se djica ke'a
     "I dance and don't want you to see me."

(2) mi do prami noi do mi na no'a
     "I love you, which you do not reciprocate."
     "I love you and you do not love me."

(3.1) mi dansu noi ke'a mi pluka
       "I dance, which is enjoyable to me."

(3.2) mi dansu noi do se xajmi ke'a
       "I dance, which you find funny."

Sentence (1) shows how {poi} lets us avoid jai+fai with complex bridi-tails:

mi dansu poi lo nu do ke'a viska cu na se djica ke'a
==
mi dansu gi'e na jai se djica fai lo ka do ce'u viska

This is one of its two main advantages. The other is that making {broda 
NOI brode} legal is taking a currently ungrammatical construct that 
people often intuitively use and making it grammatical.

Sentences (3.1) and (3.2) show {ke'a} representing the event (or 
predication) of the containing bridi. In both, {ke'a} == {lo nu mi dansu}.

The possible downsides to all this I already mentioned in my previous post.

mu'o mi'e la selpa'i

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