Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 22:02:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: la gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Message-Id: <d7d2a2d2-1524-4635-8786-e269facc8063@googlegroups.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAHiXx=MjJVJ9_xG_auJ1kyFkE4xW3z=-83G4bOO6+=thH32vwg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOQ8VDXtkU=NnZsr-jrMPBzO-V8LPfYHeOX4kk=aiORSP4uM7g@mail.gmail.com>
 <fc400251-be4b-4464-ac6a-882f17dc5a01@googlegroups.com> <CAO7tK2dWSF-raojc2VzOQ9TZiFECeiXEhXH-qKNmvtVGPq4sNw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAO7tK2duGfZxy1WKY7xqaNYxOfw3LD80_TB9n3gVkztjO+8eQA@mail.gmail.com>
 <78563624-9255-41a0-b09c-fb9cd7c03d33@googlegroups.com> <CA+gZtgJoE=cM6NB8mot6g9in6cwmE8fQBt0jou1JSjFPVPH1KQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHiXx=MjJVJ9_xG_auJ1kyFkE4xW3z=-83G4bOO6+=thH32vwg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: No gismu for Difference
MIME-Version: 1.0
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com
Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 
	boundary="----=_Part_840_31061371.1364187765074"
X-Spam_score: -0.1
X-Spam_score_int: 0
X-Spam_bar: /

------=_Part_840_31061371.1364187765074
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Monday, March 25, 2013 5:50:26 AM UTC+4, stevo wrote:
>
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 9:11 PM, Ian Johnson <blindb...@gmail.com<javascr=
ipt:>
> > wrote:
>
>> Indeed, this has been something that has nagged at the back of my mind=
=20
>> since I started studying the language; there are fairly few words which =
are=20
>> sufficiently similar to their source language counterparts to help a=20
>> speaker of a source language learn the language more easily.=20
>
>
> This is why I say the vocabulary is equally d=EDfficult for everybody. Th=
e=20
> memory hooks aren't numerous for any given language, and they're not=20
> consistent enough to make them useful to learn. Totally ad hoc words coul=
d=20
> hardly be more difficult to learn than what we have.=20
>

This algorithm originated in the first SciAm paper by JCB. He claimed the=
=20
existence of global etymology. *sei mi morji *Lojban doesnt have any goals=
=20
to prove the existence of such thing. The only reason to apply the=20
algorithm is mnemonics. Otherwise Lojban is completely apriori.

Given that the number of speakers of Romance languages exceed the number of=
=20
Chinese speakers I suggest {difro} or similar gismu once again.

However, what I'd like more is not to add more gismu but instead to remove=
=20
some of the existing. The adoption of {selsumji}=3D"difference" will teach=
=20
newbies "predicate reasoning". If a person can cope with rearranging sumti=
=20
places and knows the basic vocabulary then 'ey is already a good speaker of=
=20
Lojban.


=20
>
>> The stated purpose of the algorithm doesn't seem like it was really=20
>> achieved, pe'i. Not that that's a bad thing, as it still provides a sour=
ce=20
>> of an a priori vocabulary.
>>
>> mi'e la latro'a mu'o
>>
>>
>>

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.


------=_Part_840_31061371.1364187765074
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<br><br>On Monday, March 25, 2013 5:50:26 AM UTC+4, stevo wrote:<blockquote=
 class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1=
px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun=
, Mar 24, 2013 at 9:11 PM, Ian Johnson <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"jav=
ascript:" target=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"ayTw3wis-2gJ">blindb..=
.@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" styl=
e=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

Indeed, this has been something that has nagged at the back of my mind sinc=
e I started studying the language; there are fairly few words which are suf=
ficiently similar to their source language counterparts to help a speaker o=
f a source language learn the language more easily. </blockquote>

<div><br></div><div>This is why I say the vocabulary is equally d=EDfficult=
 for everybody. The memory hooks aren't numerous for any given language, an=
d they're not consistent enough to make them useful to learn. Totally ad ho=
c words could hardly be more difficult to learn than what we have.&nbsp;</d=
iv></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>This algorithm originated in the =
first SciAm paper by JCB. He claimed the existence of global etymology. <i>=
sei mi morji </i>Lojban doesnt have any goals to prove the existence of suc=
h thing. The only reason to apply the algorithm is mnemonics. Otherwise Loj=
ban is completely apriori.</div><div><br></div><div>Given that the number o=
f speakers of Romance languages exceed the number of Chinese speakers I sug=
gest {difro} or similar gismu once again.</div><div><br></div><div>However,=
 what I'd like more is not to add more gismu but instead to remove some of =
the existing. The adoption of {selsumji}=3D"difference" will teach newbies =
"predicate reasoning". If a person can cope with rearranging sumti places a=
nd knows the basic vocabulary then 'ey is already a good speaker of Lojban.=
</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: =
1ex;"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>&nbsp;</div><blockquote class=3D"gmai=
l_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left=
:1ex">The stated purpose of the algorithm doesn't seem like it was really a=
chieved, pe'i. Not that that's a bad thing, as it still provides a source o=
f an a priori vocabulary.<div>


<br></div><div>mi'e la latro'a mu'o<div><div><br><br></div></div></div></bl=
ockquote></div>
</blockquote>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;lojban&quot; group.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.<br />
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.<br />
Visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3De=
n">http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den</a>.<br />
For more options, visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out=
">https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out</a>.<br />
&nbsp;<br />
&nbsp;<br />

------=_Part_840_31061371.1364187765074--