Received: from mail-vc0-f192.google.com ([209.85.220.192]:43981) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1ULcJ8-0008TI-SW for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Fri, 29 Mar 2013 09:37:55 -0700 Received: by mail-vc0-f192.google.com with SMTP id hr11sf229328vcb.19 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2013 09:37:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:received-spf:x-received :mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=TqNZ6Q+hv7yzgyuvnXMjXIKgiWoba3OgJeBkVe0Mvjc=; b=gk407uABiHXEjFQiZTWE4Lv7azP9+1inD3EDyR+ejt7H+dYt6sdiv+RWLfyZmMM7Gx 35qCkCfVggB7ELcYYMF5dNktAAO9d0WEjYv7uVI8N1fwtVjtMQLNDTkUDRXGseCIC/rU nhfumBSEtrtOlD8TxZwBkVmqtxGGbDD6M+P6xRSD/lq6Y86NqGggGy9F7TagdY1Bg2mq pdYRzFGybo9d1uQpJzOCdWnJkwvrvjyqdqI7zYqqmOVyyOg4YoxTVUO7uD+DBLkEbu3D qrEsQJLRqJ0NLK0maziCmAe3enc5waYWwuLgFNonrrMp5tINyBfVeCAM2SaYGDZHB1PT mLCg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:received-spf:x-received :mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=TqNZ6Q+hv7yzgyuvnXMjXIKgiWoba3OgJeBkVe0Mvjc=; b=SvMd68/B6RZvvhHKwflGQBZ5z+eVgznzwUcPaQV8u7/K+xqZwh3r0iJlUOqkIqWv0y PmCuWbH8XRVMnfUuTRJt/sMgBCfyknVeA9uKspsXIPzex7nPhbR8BhJJsfGzzYaMk8Fu MaazwldFCf1zvuQtA2v6JNpfHw45E/IXKcbDkrCnNXtAoR5BStmmolwBgF9u/6SNodV3 weFN0M3p8x5hLcFwBDjeRHS0WTK1Cw0ffNYNyYrYVpaPD9FW9513d1vLqIUXJwLr3uTr P+nFJwJYE0kBXVxzSVpT/38j0S/mhIwHibpGfZLtpr3uAvM93TrxawfFyxeFJRBNfSvV P2Cg== X-Received: by 10.49.120.67 with SMTP id la3mr212428qeb.12.1364575051567; Fri, 29 Mar 2013 09:37:31 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.49.0.102 with SMTP id 6ls396873qed.24.gmail; Fri, 29 Mar 2013 09:37:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.52.244.1 with SMTP id xc1mr2407110vdc.7.1364575051003; Fri, 29 Mar 2013 09:37:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vc0-f172.google.com (mail-vc0-f172.google.com [209.85.220.172]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id t20si355228vdf.0.2013.03.29.09.37.30 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 29 Mar 2013 09:37:30 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lytlesw@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.172 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.220.172; Received: by mail-vc0-f172.google.com with SMTP id hr11so644689vcb.17 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2013 09:37:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.220.119.147 with SMTP id z19mr2240940vcq.69.1364575050862; Fri, 29 Mar 2013 09:37:30 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.58.188.116 with HTTP; Fri, 29 Mar 2013 09:37:00 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1364567611.32356.YahooMailNeo@web184405.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <9cb76aa0-a82f-490f-befe-faeb69060888@googlegroups.com> <1364567611.32356.YahooMailNeo@web184405.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: MorphemeAddict Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 12:37:00 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] A Discussion of the Lojban System of Place Structure To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lytlesw@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lytlesw@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.172 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lytlesw@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec54d4cfc2d167a04d912e3d9 X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --bcaec54d4cfc2d167a04d912e3d9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Yes, places can, because each place of each selbri can be defined uniquely. stevo On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 10:33 AM, John E Clifford wrote: > And places can? Surely, if so, then prepositions or affix cases can. But > it is unlikely that any system can unambiguously cover all possible > relations; the present one surely does not. > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* MorphemeAddict > *To:* lojban@googlegroups.com > *Sent:* Friday, March 29, 2013 9:10 AM > > *Subject:* Re: [lojban] A Discussion of the Lojban System of Place > Structure > > IIRC, Loglan (and then Lojban) used place structures instead of > prepositions or case endings because cases and/or prepositions could not > unambiguously accommodate all the meanings necessary. > > stevo > > > On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 11:08 PM, wrote: > > . ui coi ro do > > I'm Daniel Evans, and I figured that I would share my thoughts on the > lojban place structure. I've been thinking about it for a few weeks, so I > finally sat down today for about four hours and typed up a really rough > paper about it. > > In a nutshell, I say it should be trashed. Thrown away. Why? Read the > paper, and then tell me what you think :) > > I'll preface it (I did say this in the paper as all) with this: *I don't > think it's an awful system. Nor am I gonna be angry if everybody hates it. > * Keep in mind that I just blazed through a ten page paper, and didn't > take a whole lot of time to revise my thoughts. I just wanted to get my > thoughts down and organize them for myself. Doing so was best achieved by > writing a paper about it, and that ended up being too much work to keep it > to myself. I'm interested by what others think. It would be unbelievably > cool if my ideas could be implemented, but I don't necessarily expect it. > > It is attached to this post. Enjoy! > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --bcaec54d4cfc2d167a04d912e3d9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes, places can, because each place of each selbri can be = defined uniquely.=A0

stevo


On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at= 10:33 AM, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wrote:<= br>
And places can?=A0 Surely, if so, t= hen prepositions or affix cases can.=A0 But it is unlikely that any system = can unambiguously cover all possible relations; the present one surely does= not.


From: MorphemeAddict <<= a href=3D"mailto:lytlesw@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">lytlesw@gmail.com= >
To: lojban@googlegroups.com <= br> Sent: Friday, March 29, 201= 3 9:10 AM

Subject= : Re: [lojban] A Discussion of the Lojban System of Place Structure
=
IIRC, Loglan (and then Lojban) used place structures = instead of prepositions or case endings because cases and/or prepositions c= ould not unambiguously accommodate all the meanings necessary.=A0

stevo


On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 11:08 PM, <daniel.e2718@gmail.com> wrote:
. ui coi ro do

I'm Daniel Evans, and I figu= red that I would share my thoughts on the lojban place structure. I've = been thinking about it for a few weeks, so I finally sat down today for abo= ut four hours and typed up a really rough paper about it.

In a nutshell, I say it should be trashed. Thrown away.= Why? Read the paper, and then tell me what you think :)

I'll preface it (I did say this in the paper as all) with this: = I don't think it's an awful system. Nor am I gonna be angry if e= verybody hates it.=A0Keep in mind that I just blazed through a ten page= paper, and didn't take a whole lot of time to revise my thoughts. I ju= st wanted to get my thoughts down and organize them for myself. Doing so wa= s best achieved by writing a paper about it, and that ended up being too mu= ch work to keep it to myself. I'm interested by what others think. It w= ould be unbelievably cool if my ideas could be implemented, but I don't= necessarily expect it.

It is attached to this post. Enjoy!
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=A0
=A0

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=A0
=A0


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=A0
=A0

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