Received: from mail-pd0-f186.google.com ([209.85.192.186]:50211) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1ULcdX-0000U1-LT; Fri, 29 Mar 2013 09:58:47 -0700 Received: by mail-pd0-f186.google.com with SMTP id w10sf232990pde.3 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2013 09:58:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:date:from:to:cc:message-id :in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version:x-original-sender :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=YQxuiyxun17Rswuo+pl7RcUyLJuc48HOYoNBOP4o53U=; b=mcogBe8nLhkd9m2xHkpSY05VBD2ZqAYDW//HY3+Uoo8MA284ky7vHGQX+njzZo+RcY L5Gtl9Lhdg5OmnSR9DOt5ZwhzxRHafyVXXYrp3Ohnu3j1dg9eFQIS7NRU/sqTd5lMsTR SDstH5ICPF3DlwUy6cWhGW0srfG1oFXJJQP5zYobrkbaGgjOj8CVGCS0hQXDWBFXVc// LPr7IN3weZ7Rj1c1EXCQvhDDrXgsbCjt8gnoG3B3PqbTUbiWArzV/7h37OBzujuaZ92A c4ZOG4FVI9ovIZy+1vAUUIDiNfX6KdzxEGXt4vh2fFJ3RLSbvq8RgFMw7CR+rPNyK+v2 fPxg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:date:from:to:cc:message-id :in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version:x-original-sender :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=YQxuiyxun17Rswuo+pl7RcUyLJuc48HOYoNBOP4o53U=; b=Zi9p55LHjpszWhNKPYlXt6+01kd7NoXy45JXs7yfr9szF3Yad+783vZzwODdHXS8CG SkRf4eN+7iuh91G2oTQBrCOeteOfoNmxFIqogPg7vjg6Rv1eKHJjWRr/sIePdJ78AflH 1M/Pm3WQjfOoOO2i/KOgdr9f5r4blq5RYso9w/92jKKgXjzSm7ceeMduK3rXKbzXe8D9 dxCAo8CwJcRtRQNEnGfipFjh9AE4yIRCKEIBh/BYc+WTdSw8iIHgmqfxLRmse171/8F4 AP+I5ALXdqd69snV23Qjco4/LgMCsW8iY3qu4kf5q6DA/AWY9XwkiF7dzXUDIzmWGZHB jPLw== X-Received: by 10.50.150.166 with SMTP id uj6mr42652igb.1.1364576316595; Fri, 29 Mar 2013 09:58:36 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.76.234 with SMTP id n10ls44396igw.23.gmail; Fri, 29 Mar 2013 09:58:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.50.214.36 with SMTP id nx4mr58890igc.6.1364576316085; Fri, 29 Mar 2013 09:58:36 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 09:58:34 -0700 (PDT) From: la gleki To: lojban@googlegroups.com Cc: John E Clifford Message-Id: <9ffdbe75-13f4-4f69-879c-701adcdc2a08@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: <1364567611.32356.YahooMailNeo@web184405.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <9cb76aa0-a82f-490f-befe-faeb69060888@googlegroups.com> <1364567611.32356.YahooMailNeo@web184405.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [lojban] A Discussion of the Lojban System of Place Structure MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_454_29027471.1364576314398" X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / ------=_Part_454_29027471.1364576314398 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Friday, March 29, 2013 6:33:31 PM UTC+4, clifford wrote: > > And places can? Surely, if so, then prepositions or affix cases can. > If we split all gismu to gismu having only one/two places then the number of gismu will increase correspondingly but otherwise it'll work. > But it is unlikely that any system can unambiguously cover all possible > relations; the present one surely does not. > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* MorphemeAddict > > *To:* loj...@googlegroups.com > *Sent:* Friday, March 29, 2013 9:10 AM > *Subject:* Re: [lojban] A Discussion of the Lojban System of Place > Structure > > IIRC, Loglan (and then Lojban) used place structures instead of > prepositions or case endings because cases and/or prepositions could not > unambiguously accommodate all the meanings necessary. > > stevo > > > On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 11:08 PM, >wrote: > > . ui coi ro do > > I'm Daniel Evans, and I figured that I would share my thoughts on the > lojban place structure. I've been thinking about it for a few weeks, so I > finally sat down today for about four hours and typed up a really rough > paper about it. > > In a nutshell, I say it should be trashed. Thrown away. Why? Read the > paper, and then tell me what you think :) > > I'll preface it (I did say this in the paper as all) with this: *I don't > think it's an awful system. Nor am I gonna be angry if everybody hates it. > * Keep in mind that I just blazed through a ten page paper, and didn't > take a whole lot of time to revise my thoughts. I just wanted to get my > thoughts down and organize them for myself. Doing so was best achieved by > writing a paper about it, and that ended up being too much work to keep it > to myself. I'm interested by what others think. It would be unbelievably > cool if my ideas could be implemented, but I don't necessarily expect it. > > It is attached to this post. Enjoy! > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com . > To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com > . > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com . > To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com > . > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. ------=_Part_454_29027471.1364576314398 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Friday, March 29, 2013 6:33:31 PM UTC+4, clifford wrote:
And places can?  Surely, if so, then prepositions or affix cases c= an.

If we split all gismu to gi= smu having only one/two places then the number of gismu will increase corre= spondingly but otherwise it'll work.

 
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;bord= er-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">
  But it is unlikely that any system can unambiguously cove= r all possible relations; the present one surely does not.


IIRC, Loglan (and then Lojban) used place structures = instead of prepositions or case endings because cases and/or prepositions c= ould not unambiguously accommodate all the meanings necessary. 
stevo


On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 11:08 PM, <daniel...@gmail.com> = wrote:
. ui coi ro do

I'm Daniel Evans, and I figured = that I would share my thoughts on the lojban place structure. I've been thi= nking about it for a few weeks, so I finally sat down today for about four = hours and typed up a really rough paper about it.

In a nutshell, I say it should be trashed. Thrown away.= Why? Read the paper, and then tell me what you think :)

I'll preface it (I did say this in the paper as all) with this: I= don't think it's an awful system. Nor am I gonna be angry if everybody hat= es it. Keep in mind that I just blazed through a ten page paper, a= nd didn't take a whole lot of time to revise my thoughts. I just wanted to = get my thoughts down and organize them for myself. Doing so was best achiev= ed by writing a paper about it, and that ended up being too much work to ke= ep it to myself. I'm interested by what others think. It would be unbelieva= bly cool if my ideas could be implemented, but I don't necessarily expect i= t.

It is attached to this post. Enjoy!
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Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den= .
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--
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