Received: from mail-da0-f63.google.com ([209.85.210.63]:32887) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1UNRUo-0004Dk-FW for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Wed, 03 Apr 2013 10:29:23 -0700 Received: by mail-da0-f63.google.com with SMTP id a18sf547302dak.18 for ; Wed, 03 Apr 2013 10:29:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:received-spf:x-authenticated :x-provags-id:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to :subject:x-y-gmx-trusted:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=T//0MfEr0C0kd3elkCENu+MmXJoGB1DOb83bGuWn0ps=; b=SWJHD27rmgG2W+4Xa6nxvG9LiRuBhXajxH3hL09NY5njmLoJcBynD+2flTYcGAnhMb hqsASlFWs9tJxQmciHCUg3Cp/YewYqYB5Alkc1naXvldf19rGks1pCbNcSiX9H9WiRmk 5PsdE2MfUOHIyIhY3k4+BbLG+xCzZjEaC3dfq49iD0whc+2O0Xs4QENVO2P+aaRBT9sF 8BiM05v5m1Bj/KsBAGwtADeRoTIuXqVKkLgKYe3X4nHS8p0SbT9t/Q+0ZcaUxj36GA9q q0qZ/xYi+yfrmnmvi1beBU4Xa9nyd3dCO75FDlgfGu87ogWlFRtD4LdiGlY/tMckpdSn H1QA== X-Received: by 10.50.47.105 with SMTP id c9mr2620025ign.2.1365010148170; Wed, 03 Apr 2013 10:29:08 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.158.225 with SMTP id wx1ls2717523igb.21.canary; Wed, 03 Apr 2013 10:29:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.66.121.66 with SMTP id li2mr346104pab.37.1365010147265; Wed, 03 Apr 2013 10:29:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net. [212.227.17.21]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id pp3si821998pbb.1.2013.04.03.10.29.06; Wed, 03 Apr 2013 10:29:07 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of seladwa@gmx.de designates 212.227.17.21 as permitted sender) client-ip=212.227.17.21; Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net ([10.1.76.27]) by mrigmx.server.lan (mrigmx002) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0M5JXV-1UYFsz0tGZ-00zWKU for ; Wed, 03 Apr 2013 19:29:06 +0200 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 03 Apr 2013 17:29:05 -0000 Received: from p54AF48A3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (EHLO [192.168.2.100]) [84.175.72.163] by mail.gmx.net (mp027) with SMTP; 03 Apr 2013 19:29:05 +0200 X-Authenticated: #54293076 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/DHGRr9CDDxBKt6R/JDI2jBesrWhLmc1T0616hy3 r1lCHijr5GPW5N Message-ID: <515C66D0.60501@gmx.de> Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2013 19:28:48 +0200 From: selpa'i User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130328 Thunderbird/17.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: [lojban] Isomorphism in lo cmalu noltru X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-Original-Sender: seladwa@gmx.de X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of seladwa@gmx.de designates 212.227.17.21 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=seladwa@gmx.de Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / coi do'u I have a question regarding audio-visual isomorphism in lo cmalu noltru.=20 The dialogues in this book often don't indicate speaker changes (just as=20 in the original). This is fine when reading the book, because one can=20 see the "=97" sign and the line breaks. However, when reading such a=20 dialogue out loud, it isn't always so clear to the listener. Here is a small excerpt: =97 .i sa'u mi ty ponse =97 .i xu do ponse lo tarci =97 .i go'i =97 .i ku'i mi pu zgana lo nolraitru noi ... =97 .i lo nolraitru cu ponse nagi'e turni .i mutce frica =97 .i ma do prali lo nu do ponse lo tarci =97 .i prali mi fa lo nu mi ricfu =97 .i ma do prali lo nu do ricfu =97 .i lo nu mi te vecnu lo drata tarci va'o lo nu da tolcri ty So it looks like there is a character/layout choice here that has=20 meaning (i.e. it marks a speaker change), but that isn't realized in=20 speech. This is unsatisfactory for me. The question then is what to do=20 about it. Should "=97" here be considered a "forethought" pair of =ABlu li'u=BB? I'm= =20 tending towards reading it that way (should I ever get around to making=20 a complete recording of this wonderful book). mu'o mi'e la selpa'i --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.