Received: from mail-gg0-f190.google.com ([209.85.161.190]:45510) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1UOV5y-0000Wi-0R for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Sat, 06 Apr 2013 08:32:02 -0700 Received: by mail-gg0-f190.google.com with SMTP id h4sf1483962ggn.27 for ; Sat, 06 Apr 2013 08:31:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:date:from:to:message-id :in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version:x-original-sender :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=fPbsC3vIOC4tUXtPitce2gpd6DLKDCtkGl6A0Txo2Hc=; b=epOt3jDqG2ntjnhq+14cEMk9I8NZR/P6iZsJbQIUs2/SxjX+kJcCaO6nBAUDfUmNV/ pXHhVGv45zrivHcWMSdZWQS+D+DiNg0uTN1uvQxlaCVi1k6UWrdtHHyTL7C/XPmP2gcE nVF0TmiMYJE5SDVUBhFPZBnLOzxuJ/4SvsZdGPq71rUXPHRoUPkrqVSikmQLvc8Od2FI fMGoegCGEjdeXP3HJ1QPFjKmK6fOSKLQVr4d4z+zSCXulP6FbOzPAZiavX921Du4a5MD 9SqHxaMgg+X9pEhR6Jo/5bHe5U5anSYQVJGRWg3WZK9MFDn+LhD5eUpMnlKs/a0vN1jE WSeQ== X-Received: by 10.49.85.35 with SMTP id e3mr1306061qez.7.1365259888416; Sat, 06 Apr 2013 07:51:28 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.49.50.226 with SMTP id f2ls2343941qeo.13.gmail; Sat, 06 Apr 2013 07:51:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.49.61.234 with SMTP id t10mr1273040qer.16.1365259887294; Sat, 06 Apr 2013 07:51:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2013 07:51:26 -0700 (PDT) From: iesk To: lojban@googlegroups.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <5160157C.6020401@gmx.de> References: <515C66D0.60501@gmx.de> <5160157C.6020401@gmx.de> Subject: Re: [lojban] Isomorphism in lo cmalu noltru MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: pa.fae@gmx.de Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / I am undecided on which way I would prefer. Option b) is probably clearer t= han option a). And 'forethought {lu}/{li'u}' *is* a sensible interpretation= of the function of those dashes. However: Lojban grammar does (as far as I know) *not* provide a way to indicate voic= e inflection [voice modulation? English is an L2 to me] in written text. Is= omorphism has its limits. I'm quite sure that that has been clear from the = beginning. The assumption (LASELPAhI:)>It is, but it's not Lojban. Text and speech is supposed to mat= ch. could easily be a first step in the wrong direction---leading to the 'Lojba= n has to be spoken in a monotonous computer voice' fallacy, couldn't it? (The fallacy I have in mind is: Lojban has a.v. isomorphism. Lojban has no voice-modulation cmavo or whatever. Thus, Lojban is to be read without voice modulation.) I don't see why reading (interpreting) the text with appropriate voice infl= ection would't be a Lojban performance. And that, I opine, could be the mos= t pleasing kind of performance, to the listener. By the way: If we do take isomorphism (in the limited-thus-sensible sense) seriously, d= on't we then have to ask what it means that the text *doesn't* indicate spe= aker change by means of {lu}/{li'u} (while it could as well do so)? I mean,= supposing of course that the translator did that on purpose and not by ove= rsight, it could be a stylistically slightly weird text---like an English t= ext without punctuation. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.