Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of seladwa@gmx.de designates 212.227.17.21 as permitted sender) client-ip=212.227.17.21;
Message-ID: <51602E6B.1090404@gmx.de>
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2013 16:17:15 +0200
From: selpa'i <seladwa@gmx.de>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130328 Thunderbird/17.0.5
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] Isomorphism in lo cmalu noltru
References: <515C66D0.60501@gmx.de> <5160157C.6020401@gmx.de> <20130406134320.GA24206@samsa.fritz.box> <51602858.6090305@gmx.de> <CAO7tK2efpPFfQYHg+BB0iAaH_eRtM+2V4mYrEggsgWWbuR=WRg@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAO7tK2efpPFfQYHg+BB0iAaH_eRtM+2V4mYrEggsgWWbuR=WRg@mail.gmail.com>
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com
Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Spam_score: 0.0
X-Spam_score_int: 0
X-Spam_bar: /

la .xorxes. cu cusku di'e
> On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 10:51 AM, selpa'i <seladwa@gmx.de
> <mailto:seladwa@gmx.de>> wrote:
>
>     la .van. cu cusku di'e
>
>         I agree with iesk here: If you write down a stream of spoken text=
,
>         you should also include voice hints:
>
>         <serious low-pitched voice> .i lo nolraitru cu ponse nagi'e
>         turni .i mutce frica
>         <ignorant child voice> .i ma do prali lonu do ponse lo tarci
>
>         Now, there _is_ an indication of speaker change.
>
>
>     It is, but it's not Lojban. Text and speech is supposed to match.
>
>
> Since neither the "=97" in the written form, nor the change in voice in
> the spoken form are part of the Lojban text, where is the mismatch? They
> are both extratextual enhancements to aid in comprehension. If you plan
> to read it in a monotone voice it will be hard to follow, but it would
> also be hard to follow for a reader if the text was written without any
> spaces and line-breaks.

The idea is that Lojban doesn't rely on tone of voice or special=20
emphasis etc. It can mark all those things with words (UI and ba'e for=20
example). It also has the tools to be explicit about quotes (lu li'u).

So in my opinion, a language like Lojban should not have to rely on how=20
the text is read out loud by the speaker. It can help to use different=20
voices, but it should not be necessary to do so.

The problem here is that the original French doesn't indicate anything=20
either, but then again it's a natural language. Still, it kind of makes=20
it okay for the Lojban do also not indicate it. I think I'm no longer in=20
favor of the lu li'u idea.

> You could also read the "=97" as "ni'o" or some new member of NIhO that
> meant "new speaker", in which case the "=97" would become part of the tex=
t.

Good point. I'd prefer {ni'o} over a new cmavo. This might be the best=20
solution so far.

mu'o mi'e la selpa'i

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.