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Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2013 09:16:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] Isomorphism in lo cmalu noltru
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So far as I can tell (and/or recall) there are three practices, possibly di=
ctated in part by texts being translated or those most familiar to the auth=
or: full quotes as object of a verb of speaking, full quotes with a parenth=
etical verb of speaking, no quotes and separate lines -- and often no verbs=
 of speaking after a conversation gets started, at least with with only two=
 interlocutors. I assume that in all cases the purported isomorphism is wit=
h the speakers not the speech.


________________________________
 From: iesk <pa.fae@gmx.de>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com=20
Sent: Saturday, April 6, 2013 11:00 AM
Subject: Re: [lojban] Isomorphism in lo cmalu noltru
=20
la selpa'i:
>I'm not saying you must pronounce the=20
>text in amonotone voice; I'm saying voice=20
>shouldn't matter one way or the other.

>but the text mustn't lose any information=20
>if you subtract from it all those nuances=20
>in your speech pattern.

I'm not usually into relativising everything to death, but, clearly, that i=
s an ideal---or a chimaera. An absence, too, of particular nuances in your =
speech pattern is information.

I think I understand what you are saying, though.

>All you need to do is imagine an=20
>implicit "sei X cusku" in the=20
>appropriate places.

O.K. But I mean, if Lojban 'standard procedure', or literature convention, =
were to use {lu}/{li'u}, then their intentional non-usage per se would be p=
otentially meaningful/interpretable. (This is somehow parallel to the stuff=
 above about [absence of] voice patterns.)

The question is: Is there an established Lojban standard procedure for text=
s like lo cmalu noltru? Possibly, I don't read enough Lojban to know. (Hope=
fully will.)

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<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:ti=
mes new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt">So far as I can tell =
(and/or recall) there are three practices, possibly dictated in part by tex=
ts being translated or those most familiar to the author: full quotes as ob=
ject of a verb of speaking, full quotes with a parenthetical verb of speaki=
ng, no quotes and separate lines -- and often no verbs of speaking after a =
conversation gets started, at least with with only two interlocutors. I ass=
ume that in all cases the purported isomorphism is with the speakers not th=
e speech.<br><div><span><br></span></div><div><br></div>  <div style=3D"fon=
t-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div =
style=3D"font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 1=
2pt;"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"> <hr size=3D"1">  =
<b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> iesk &lt;pa.fae@gmx.d=
e&gt;<br>
 <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> lojban@googlegroups.c=
om <br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Saturday, Ap=
ril 6, 2013 11:00 AM<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Subject:</sp=
an></b> Re: [lojban] Isomorphism in lo cmalu noltru<br> </font> </div> <br>
la selpa'i:<br>&gt;I'm not saying you must pronounce the <br>&gt;text in am=
onotone voice; I'm saying voice <br>&gt;shouldn't matter one way or the oth=
er.<br><br>&gt;but the text mustn't lose any information <br>&gt;if you sub=
tract from it all those nuances <br>&gt;in your speech pattern.<br><br>I'm =
not usually into relativising everything to death, but, clearly, that is an=
 ideal---or a chimaera. An absence, too, of particular nuances in your spee=
ch pattern is information.<br><br>I think I understand what you are saying,=
 though.<br><br>&gt;All you need to do is imagine an <br>&gt;implicit "sei =
X cusku" in the <br>&gt;appropriate places.<br><br>O.K. But I mean, if Lojb=
an 'standard procedure', or literature convention, were to use {lu}/{li'u},=
 then their intentional non-usage per se would be potentially meaningful/in=
terpretable. (This is somehow parallel to the stuff above about [absence of=
] voice patterns.)<br><br>The question is: Is there an established
 Lojban standard procedure for texts like lo cmalu noltru? Possibly, I don'=
t read enough Lojban to know. (Hopefully will.)<br><br>-- <br>You received =
this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group=
.<br>To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send=
 an email to lojban+<a ymailto=3D"mailto:unsubscribe@googlegroups.com" href=
=3D"mailto:unsubscribe@googlegroups.com">unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<=
br>To post to this group, send email to <a ymailto=3D"mailto:lojban@googleg=
roups.com" href=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com">lojban@googlegroups.com<=
/a>.<br>Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.<=
br>For more options, visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_=
out" target=3D"_blank">https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out</a>.<br><br=
><br><br><br> </div> </div>  </div></body></html>

<p></p>

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n">http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den</a>.<br />
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">https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out</a>.<br />
&nbsp;<br />
&nbsp;<br />

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