Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2013 23:25:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: la gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Isomorphism in lo cmalu noltru
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On Saturday, April 6, 2013 8:30:03 PM UTC+4, stevo wrote:
>
> I suggest a cmavo that means "different speaker" or something similar. 
> {ni'o} doesn't really do this. 
>

If there are three or more speakers the ambiguity will continue to exist 
and this new cmavo will again be useless.
As for reading the story aloud I'm strongly for using {sei se cusku li'o}. 
However, if this is gonna be kinda radio theater then there is the need in 
two or more actors with different voices. I can absolutely see no problem 
here.
If we are to create that new cmavo then it is supposed to be used in speech 
which is nonsense.


> stevo
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 10:51 AM, iesk <pa....@gmx.de <javascript:>> wrote:
>
>> I am undecided on which way I would prefer. Option b) is probably clearer 
>> than option a). And 'forethought {lu}/{li'u}' *is* a sensible 
>> interpretation of the function of those dashes.
>>
>> However:
>> Lojban grammar does (as far as I know) *not* provide a way to indicate 
>> voice inflection [voice modulation? English is an L2 to me] in written 
>> text. Isomorphism has its limits. I'm quite sure that that has been clear 
>> from the beginning.
>>
>> The assumption
>>
>> (LASELPAhI:)>It is, but it's not Lojban. Text and speech is supposed to 
>> match.
>>
>> could easily be a first step in the wrong direction---leading to the 
>> 'Lojban has to be spoken in a monotonous computer voice' fallacy, couldn't 
>> it?
>>
>> (The fallacy I have in mind is:
>> Lojban has a.v. isomorphism.
>> Lojban has no voice-modulation cmavo or whatever.
>> Thus, Lojban is to be read without voice modulation.)
>>
>> I don't see why reading (interpreting) the text with appropriate voice 
>> inflection would't be a Lojban performance. And that, I opine, could be the 
>> most pleasing kind of performance, to the listener.
>>
>> By the way:
>> If we do take isomorphism (in the limited-thus-sensible sense) seriously, 
>> don't we then have to ask what it means that the text *doesn't* indicate 
>> speaker change by means of {lu}/{li'u} (while it could as well do so)? I 
>> mean, supposing of course that the translator did that on purpose and not 
>> by oversight, it could be a stylistically slightly weird text---like an 
>> English text without punctuation.
>>
>> --
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>>
>>
>

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<br><br>On Saturday, April 6, 2013 8:30:03 PM UTC+4, stevo wrote:<blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: =
1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr">I suggest a cmavo that =
means "different speaker" or something similar. {ni'o} doesn't really do th=
is.&nbsp;</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>If there are three or more =
speakers the ambiguity will continue to exist and this new cmavo will again=
 be useless.</div><div>As for reading the story aloud I'm strongly for usin=
g {sei se cusku li'o}. However, if this is gonna be kinda radio theater the=
n there is the need in two or more actors with different voices. I can abso=
lutely see no problem here.</div><div>If we are to create that new cmavo th=
en it is supposed to be used in speech which is nonsense.</div><div><br></d=
iv><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;=
border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><br><=
/div><div>stevo</div></div><div><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">

On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 10:51 AM, iesk <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"java=
script:" target=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"bmW3-cLAZrQJ">pa....@gm=
x.de</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"ma=
rgin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

I am undecided on which way I would prefer. Option b) is probably clearer t=
han option a). And 'forethought {lu}/{li'u}' *is* a sensible interpretation=
 of the function of those dashes.<br>
<br>
However:<br>
Lojban grammar does (as far as I know) *not* provide a way to indicate voic=
e inflection [voice modulation? English is an L2 to me] in written text. Is=
omorphism has its limits. I'm quite sure that that has been clear from the =
beginning.<br>


<br>
The assumption<br>
<br>
(LASELPAhI:)&gt;It is, but it's not Lojban. Text and speech is supposed to =
match.<br>
<br>
could easily be a first step in the wrong direction---leading to the 'Lojba=
n has to be spoken in a monotonous computer voice' fallacy, couldn't it?<br=
>
<br>
(The fallacy I have in mind is:<br>
Lojban has a.v. isomorphism.<br>
Lojban has no voice-modulation cmavo or whatever.<br>
Thus, Lojban is to be read without voice modulation.)<br>
<br>
I don't see why reading (interpreting) the text with appropriate voice infl=
ection would't be a Lojban performance. And that, I opine, could be the mos=
t pleasing kind of performance, to the listener.<br>
<br>
By the way:<br>
If we do take isomorphism (in the limited-thus-sensible sense) seriously, d=
on't we then have to ask what it means that the text *doesn't* indicate spe=
aker change by means of {lu}/{li'u} (while it could as well do so)? I mean,=
 supposing of course that the translator did that on purpose and not by ove=
rsight, it could be a stylistically slightly weird text---like an English t=
ext without punctuation.<br>


<div><div><br>
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<br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
</blockquote>

<p></p>

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