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Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 09:47:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: "Any" and {ro}
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=C2=A0am not quite sure what this is a list of, some are cases where "any" =
cannot occur (a,b), some are cases where it can, along with "some" (d,e), s=
ome are cases where "any" but not "some" may occur (c,f,g,h,i but all sligh=
tly odd), cases where "and" and "some" (and "every") can all occur, but wit=
h different meanings (j), and cases where the "every" meaning is paramount =
(k,l,m).=C2=A0 Hmm, the oddity of f is that it belongs in the last set. h i=
sn't odd, on second thought, it is just remote from the "not".=C2=A0 Nor is=
 i, although the negation is buried in the verb "The bank succeeded in maki=
ng some decision."=C2=A0 j and c (not sure why 'irrealis') are a pair; chan=
ge the modal and you change the rule; that is, "must" is inherently negativ=
e (or at least unfactual) while "may" is not.=C2=A0 As usual, finding where=
 to put the quantifiers seems to be the main guide, along with which quanti=
fier to put.=C2=A0 So, yes, it is not really a problem -- figure out what y=
ou want to say
 and say it and don't worry about the quirks of English.
=C2=A0=20


________________________________
 From: la gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com=20
Sent: Sunday, April 7, 2013 7:51 AM
Subject: [lojban] Re: "Any" and {ro}
=20


On Wednesday, August 15, 2012 4:35:28 PM UTC+4, la gleki wrote:
I couldn't reply to the post=C2=A0(due to server error every time i tried t=
o send my reply)=C2=A0so I'm creating another topic.
>
>
>This is really an interesting question.
>*Any* ideas of how to express "any" in Lojban?
>I can clearly feel the difference between "any" and "each/every/all" ({ro}=
) but I can't describe it.

Well, I've got two links.

http://migmaq.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/McCulloch-2012-Migmaq-Indefini=
tes-handout-for-OWNAL1.pdf

http://www.linguistics.ruhr-uni-bochum.de/bla/beyondsem2011/aguilar_final.p=
df


This is the exhaustive (as of 2012 ;) ) list of examples that describe the =
difference between some and any.

a. SK speci=EF=AC=81c known Somebody called. Guess who?
b. SU speci=EF=AC=81c unknown I heard something, but I couldn=E2=80=99t tel=
l what it was.
c. IR irrealis You must try somewhere else.
d. Q question Did anybody tell you anything about it?
e. CA conditional antecedent If you see anybody, tell me immediately.
f. CO comparative John is taller than anybody.
g. DN direct negation John didn=E2=80=99t see anybody.
h. AM anti-morphic I don=E2=80=99t think that anybody knows the answer.
i. AA anti-additive The bank avoided taking any decision.
j. FC free choice You may kiss anybody.
k. UFC universal free choice John kissed any woman with red hair.
l. GEN generic Any dog has four legs.
m. IND Indiscriminative I don't want to sleep with just anybody anymore.


It seems that "any" is a non-problem. Do youza'o have problems with transla=
ting these examples?

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<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:ti=
mes new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt">&nbsp;am not quite su=
re what this is a list of, some are cases where "any" cannot occur (a,b), s=
ome are cases where it can, along with "some" (d,e), some are cases where "=
any" but not "some" may occur (c,f,g,h,i but all slightly odd), cases where=
 "and" and "some" (and "every") can all occur, but with different meanings =
(j), and cases where the "every" meaning is paramount (k,l,m).&nbsp; Hmm, t=
he oddity of f is that it belongs in the last set. h isn't odd, on second t=
hought, it is just remote from the "not".&nbsp; Nor is i, although the nega=
tion is buried in the verb "The bank succeeded in making some decision."&nb=
sp; j and c (not sure why 'irrealis') are a pair; change the modal and you =
change the rule; that is, "must" is inherently negative (or at least unfact=
ual) while "may" is not.&nbsp; As usual, finding where to put the
 quantifiers seems to be the main guide, along with which quantifier to put=
.&nbsp; So, yes, it is not really a problem -- figure out what you want to =
say and say it and don't worry about the quirks of English.<br>&nbsp; <br><=
div><span><br></span></div><div><br></div>  <div style=3D"font-family: time=
s new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style=3D"font-=
family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div di=
r=3D"ltr"> <font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"> <hr size=3D"1">  <b><span style=
=3D"font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> la gleki &lt;gleki.is.my.name@gmail=
.com&gt;<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> lojban@go=
oglegroups.com <br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> =
Sunday, April 7, 2013 7:51 AM<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Sub=
ject:</span></b> [lojban] Re: "Any" and {ro}<br> </font> </div> <br>
<div id=3D"yiv185698920"><br><br>On Wednesday, August 15, 2012 4:35:28 PM U=
TC+4, la gleki wrote:<blockquote class=3D"yiv185698920gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">I=
 couldn't reply to the <a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"https:=
//groups.google.com/d/topic/lojban/e1QaF7iQv1o/discussion">post&nbsp;</a>(d=
ue to server error every time i tried to send my reply)&nbsp;so I'm creatin=
g another topic.<div><br></div><div><div>This is really an interesting ques=
tion.</div><div>*Any* ideas of how to express "any" in Lojban?</div><div>I =
can clearly feel the difference between "any" and "each/every/all" ({ro}) b=
ut I can't describe it.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Well, I=
've got two
 links.</div><div><br>http://migmaq.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/McCulloc=
h-2012-Migmaq-Indefinites-handout-for-OWNAL1.pdf<br></div><div>http://www.l=
inguistics.ruhr-uni-bochum.de/bla/beyondsem2011/aguilar_final.pdf<br></div>=
<div><br></div><div>This is the exhaustive (as of 2012 ;) ) list of example=
s that describe the difference between <i>some</i> and <i>any</i>.</div><di=
v><br></div><div>a. SK speci=EF=AC=81c known Somebody called. Guess who?</d=
iv><div>b. SU speci=EF=AC=81c unknown I heard something, but I couldn=E2=80=
=99t tell what it was.</div><div>c. IR irrealis You must try somewhere else=
.</div><div>d. Q question Did anybody tell you anything about it?</div><div=
>e. CA conditional antecedent If you see anybody, tell me immediately.</div=
><div>f. CO comparative John is taller than anybody.</div><div>g. DN direct=
 negation John didn=E2=80=99t see anybody.</div><div>h. AM anti-morphic I d=
on=E2=80=99t think that anybody knows the answer.</div><div>i. AA anti-addi=
tive The bank avoided
 taking any decision.</div><div>j. FC free choice You may kiss anybody.</di=
v><div>k. UFC universal free choice John kissed any woman with red hair.</d=
iv><div>l. GEN generic Any dog has four legs.</div><div>m. IND Indiscrimina=
tive I don't want to sleep with just anybody anymore.</div><div><br></div><=
div><br></div><div>It seems that "any" is a non-problem. Do you<i> za'o </i=
>have problems with translating these examples?</div><div><br></div><blockq=
uote class=3D"yiv185698920gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;=
border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div><blockquote class=3D"yiv=
185698920gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1=
px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:=
1ex;"></blockquote></div></blockquote>


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ut</a>.<br>
&nbsp;<br>
&nbsp;<br>
</div><br><br> </div> </div>  </div></body></html>

<p></p>

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