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Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2013 16:36:32 -0400
Message-ID: <CA+gZtgKLnt9kSQ1XejsceL70T75nETJsXmMSYHZNsZrrhvZUQw@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] Final state of cenba/zenba/etc.
From: Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com>
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On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 3:16 PM, selpa'i <seladwa@gmx.de> wrote:

> Just to mention an option for this particular case:
>
> lo [litki] djacu cu dunja lo kelvo be li 273
>
> lo [sligu] djacu cu runme lo kelvo be li 273

These don't really play nice with my ideas about quantities; {lo kelvo be
li 273} is the water/ice itself in my model, not some ethereal
"temperature". (Getting at "temperature" that way under this model is
something like {lo si'o kelvo joi li 273}, but is never actually required.)
In either case, this just makes the concept primitive and embeds it in
opaque terms, which obfuscates the "decrease"/"increase" part that you
would need to explain the general principle to someone who doesn't
understand it already. (Specifically, objects melt when heated and freeze
when cooled, they do not simply melt/freeze at a certain
temperature/pressure.)

> How about:
>
> zenba [co'a ko'a] lo ka ma kau ni glare kei lo se sumji be li 273 [bei lo
> me ko'a moi]
>
> mu'o mi'e la selpa'i

Valid but unnecessarily clumsy; you're being forced to describe the
subtraction when the actual content of the subtraction is essentially
superfluous. Also, I'd suggest:
zenba lo ka ce'u kelvo ma kau kei lo se sumji be li 273
if we were going to use that structure anyway. Let {ni} be weird/vague, use
{ma kau} and numbers when you have precise things in mind.

mi'e la latro'a mu'o

>
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr">On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 3:16 PM, selpa&#39;i <span dir=3D"l=
tr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:seladwa@gmx.de" target=3D"_blank">seladwa@gmx.de<=
/a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-lef=
t:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class=3D"im"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)">Just to mention an op=
tion for this particular case:</span><br></div>
<br>
lo [litki] djacu cu dunja lo kelvo be li 273<div class=3D"im">
<br></div>
lo [sligu] djacu cu runme lo kelvo be li 273</blockquote><div style>These d=
on&#39;t really play nice with my ideas about quantities; {lo kelvo be li 2=
73} is the water/ice itself in my model, not some ethereal &quot;temperatur=
e&quot;. (Getting at &quot;temperature&quot; that way under this model is s=
omething like {lo si&#39;o kelvo joi li 273}, but is never actually require=
d.) In either case, this just makes the concept primitive and embeds it in =
opaque terms, which obfuscates the &quot;decrease&quot;/&quot;increase&quot=
; part that you would need to explain the general principle to someone who =
doesn&#39;t understand it already. (Specifically, objects melt when heated =
and freeze when cooled, they do not simply melt/freeze at a certain tempera=
ture/pressure.)</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
How about:<br>
<br>
zenba [co&#39;a ko&#39;a] lo ka ma kau ni glare kei lo se sumji be li 273 [=
bei lo me ko&#39;a moi]<br>
<br>
mu&#39;o mi&#39;e la selpa&#39;i</blockquote><div style>Valid but unnecessa=
rily clumsy; you&#39;re being forced to describe the subtraction when the a=
ctual content of the subtraction is essentially superfluous. Also, I&#39;d =
suggest:</div>
<div style>zenba lo ka ce&#39;u kelvo ma kau kei lo se sumji be li 273</div=
><div style>if we were going to use that structure anyway. Let {ni} be weir=
d/vague, use {ma kau} and numbers when you have precise things in mind.</di=
v>
<div style><br></div><div style>mi&#39;e la latro&#39;a mu&#39;o</div><bloc=
kquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #cc=
c solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
<br>
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<br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>

<p></p>

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