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[212.227.17.20]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id d43si516613eeu.1.2013.04.09.15.51.12; Tue, 09 Apr 2013 15:51:12 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of seladwa@gmx.de designates 212.227.17.20 as permitted sender) client-ip=212.227.17.20; Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net ([10.1.76.24]) by mrigmx.server.lan (mrigmx001) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0LxrcA-1Ubkcd3w8q-015Ffo for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2013 00:51:11 +0200 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 09 Apr 2013 22:51:11 -0000 Received: from p54AF41D1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (EHLO [192.168.2.100]) [84.175.65.209] by mail.gmx.net (mp024) with SMTP; 10 Apr 2013 00:51:11 +0200 X-Authenticated: #54293076 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+i0n4aCsaicot20FZbuuPw9N3HLK/pAO2VM6c5rb wb1Xp+eGEKw2JS Message-ID: <51649B5F.30206@gmx.de> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 00:51:11 +0200 From: selpa'i User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130328 Thunderbird/17.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Final state of cenba/zenba/etc. References: <51646922.70406@gmx.de> <51648170.8070900@gmx.de> <5164911D.1070709@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-Original-Sender: seladwa@gmx.de X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of seladwa@gmx.de designates 212.227.17.20 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=seladwa@gmx.de Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / la latro'a cu cusku di'e > On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 6:07 PM, selpa'i > wrote: > > But there is no number in most predicates, for example {xendo} or > {melbi}. {ni}'s role then is to introduce a number. {co'e ma kau} > can hardly be called a solution. > > There's no number pertinent to {xendo} or {melbi}, so there's no reason > to introduce one. You can talk about "extent" for those, but that is not > sufficiently precisely quantified to get a number. Many people like to measure all sorts of things on (sometimes ad-hoc) scales. "She is a 10" when talking about attractiveness or "He dove a 9.5" for high diving at Olympia. There are many occasions where one would like to introduce a scale and a number. > > And that's exactly the kind of {ni} I don't like. I base {ni} > entirely on {klani}. Your vague {ni} is unlike anything in the > language, but maybe you can show me a Lojban definition of it. > > For me it's a primitive, like {nu}, which describes "extent" of bridi > for which this makes sense. {.i lo solri lo lunra cu zmadu lo ni ce'u > carmi}. {.i lo mamta lo patfu cu zmadu lo ni ce'u xendo}. {.i lo speni > cu zenba lo ni ce'u xendo lo panzi be lo speni be vo'a}. etc. But you do allow {ni} both with and without a {ce'u}, don't you? I find that odd. Why allow it for {ni} and not for {ka}? I think {ce'u}-less {ka} died out for a good reason, and so in my opinion there should only be one {ni}, either with or without {ce'u}. I prefer it without. > > > > > It's not a number, at least not typically > (in my view it never is, since there's no clear rule for when it > can and > can't be and whether it is or isn't has a marked impact on > semantics.) > > > For me it's always a number. > > Can you come up with an example where there definitely is a number > that's pertinent but where the number doesn't fill any place involved in > the bridi? I gave two examples above. mu'o mi'e la selpa'i -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. 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