Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 06:22:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: la gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: No gismu for Difference
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On Saturday, April 6, 2013 4:27:08 AM UTC+4, Latro wrote:
>
> Sorry to add, but I think this problem of whether truth-functionally 
> equivalent selbri whose connotation seems significantly different is an 
> important one, and one we should probably try and formulate a general 
> response to. Having some brivla with specialized connotation (dilcu vs. 
> selpilji, mu'a) and not others feels rather sloppy.
>

It bothers me that if there is a word WITH connotation there might be NO 
 words WITHOUT such connotation. For me {vecnu} doesnt have such 
connotation that's why {se vecnu} both means "sold" and "bought". However, 
in the case of  {difro} we implicitly state that it differs from 
{selsumji}. And my problem is that there is no such vague word that would 
be a generalisation of this concept.


>
> On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 8:23 PM, Ian Johnson <blindb...@gmail.com<javascript:>
> > wrote:
>
>> Does that also mean that we need two separate gismu for "to buy" and "to 
>>> sell"?
>>>
>> This is a good question. I considered the possibility of wanting to have 
>> this since "sell" is somewhat of an agentive verb in English (sure, a 
>> grocery store selling something isn't particularly agentive, but a car 
>> salesman selling something is), which if {te vecnu} is really "buy" rather 
>> than "is sold" isn't reflected in the semantics of {vecnu}.
>>
>> At any rate, this is a marked inconsistency either way; if {selsumji} is 
>> adequate for subtraction then {selpilji} is adequate for division.
>>
>> mi'e la latro'a mu'o
>>
>>
>

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<br><br>On Saturday, April 6, 2013 4:27:08 AM UTC+4, Latro wrote:<blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: =
1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr">Sorry to add, but I thi=
nk this problem of whether truth-functionally equivalent selbri whose conno=
tation seems significantly different is an important one, and one we should=
 probably try and formulate a general response to. Having some brivla with =
specialized connotation (dilcu vs. selpilji, mu'a) and not others feels rat=
her sloppy.</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>It bothers me that if the=
re is a word WITH connotation there might be NO &nbsp;words WITHOUT such co=
nnotation. For me {vecnu} doesnt have such connotation that's why {se vecnu=
} both means "sold" and "bought". However, in the case of &nbsp;{difro} we =
implicitly state that it differs from {selsumji}. And my problem is that th=
ere is no such vague word that would be a generalisation of this concept.</=
div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;mar=
gin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">
<div><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 8:23 PM, Ian=
 Johnson <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"javascript:" target=3D"_blank" gd=
f-obfuscated-mailto=3D"DB163wNcstwJ">blindb...@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wro=
te:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote"><div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bord=
er-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)">Does that also mean that we n=
eed two separate gismu for "to buy" and "to sell"?</span></div>
</div></blockquote></div><div>This is a good question. I considered the pos=
sibility of wanting to have this since "sell" is somewhat of an agentive ve=
rb in English (sure, a grocery store selling something isn't particularly a=
gentive, but a car salesman selling something is), which if {te vecnu} is r=
eally "buy" rather than "is sold" isn't reflected in the semantics of {vecn=
u}.</div>

<div><br></div><div>At any rate, this is a marked inconsistency either way;=
 if {selsumji} is adequate for subtraction then {selpilji} is adequate for =
division.</div><div><div><br></div><div>mi'e la latro'a mu'o</div>

</div></div><br></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div>
</blockquote>

<p></p>

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