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Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2013 09:26:05 -0300
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Subject: Re: [lojban] nu+roi question
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= <jjllambias@gmail.com>
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On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 10:35 PM, Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com>wrote:

>  I see {lo nu pa roi broda} as "an event of broda happening once", and {lo
> nu so'o roi broda} as being {loi [so'o] nu pa roi broda}, more or less.
>

Yes, more or less. In the same way that a place with many trees can be seen
as many places each with a single tree.


"N roi" always needs an (implicit or explicit) interval in which the times
>> are counted. In my example, the implicit interval was each weekend. You can
>> always make it more precise, at the usual price of using more words. "I
>> hate it when you fight once (in a weekend)".
>>
> I don't think that changes much when you consider the plurality of the {lo
> nu} sumti; shift the interval around the right way and you get what I am
> thinking of. Using the ROI sumtcita functionality could probably achieve
> what you're thinking of less ambiguously, however; assuming it magically
> does what you're thinking is probably why I thought this was "incomplete"
> in the first place.
>

Why appeal to magic? "mi xebni ro nu do pa roi damba" is compatible with a
situation in which I would like you to fight more than once. There's no
magic involved in that compatibility, it is perfectly reasonable for the
"pa roi" to be the focus of the hate. "I hate when you fight" is not so
compatible with that situation. As I see it, the English-Lojban pairings:

I hate when you fight
mi xebni ro nu do damba

I hate when you fight once
mi xebni ro nu do pa roi damba

are better pairings than the pairing:

I hate when you fight
mi xebni ro nu do pa roi damba

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 10:35 PM, Ian Johnson <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:blindbravado@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">blindbravado@gmail=
.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"im"><span sty=
le=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)">=A0I see {lo nu pa roi broda} as &quot;an event =
of broda happening once&quot;, and {lo nu so&#39;o roi broda} as being {loi=
 [so&#39;o] nu pa roi broda}, more or less.</span><br>
</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div style>Yes, more or less. In th=
e same way that a place with many trees can be seen as many places each wit=
h a single tree.=A0</div><div>=A0</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"=
gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-=
left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div=
 class=3D"im"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;=
border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D=
"gmail_extra">
&quot;N roi&quot; always needs an (implicit or explicit) interval in which =
the times are counted. In my example, the implicit interval was each weeken=
d. You can always make it more precise, at the usual price of using more wo=
rds. &quot;I hate it when you fight once (in a weekend)&quot;.=A0</div>

</div></blockquote></div><div>I don&#39;t think that changes much when you =
consider the plurality of the {lo nu} sumti; shift the interval around the =
right way and you get what I am thinking of. Using the ROI sumtcita functio=
nality could probably achieve what you&#39;re thinking of less ambiguously,=
 however; assuming it magically does what you&#39;re thinking is probably w=
hy I thought this was &quot;incomplete&quot; in the first place.</div>
</div></div></div></blockquote><div>=A0</div><div style>Why appeal to magic=
? &quot;mi xebni ro nu do pa roi damba&quot; is compatible with a situation=
 in which I would like you to fight more than once. There&#39;s no magic in=
volved in that compatibility, it is perfectly reasonable for the &quot;pa r=
oi&quot; to be the focus of the hate. &quot;I hate when you fight&quot; is =
not so compatible with that situation. As I see it, the English-Lojban pair=
ings:</div>
<div style><br></div><div style>I hate when you fight</div><div style>mi xe=
bni ro nu do damba</div><div style><br></div><div style>I hate when you fig=
ht once</div><div style>mi xebni ro nu do pa roi damba</div><div style>
<br></div><div style>are better pairings than the pairing:</div><div style>=
<br></div><div style>I hate when you fight</div><div style>mi xebni ro nu d=
o pa roi damba</div><div style><br></div><div style>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e xorxe=
s</div>
<div style><br></div></div></div></div>

<p></p>

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