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Subject: Re: [lojban] 5 classes of sumti in Lojban and about a new word for
 "grammatical abstraction"
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From: tsani nicte <nictytan@gmail.com>
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Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2013 15:20:10 -0400
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The thing about selsku is that some text cannot be represented indirectly, =
e.g. zo quotes of non-selbri, such as {zo ui}.=20

This raises a question. We frequently say we pilno words. Is this usage cor=
rect? If we let pilno3 be a function involving pilno2, then the type of pil=
no2 comes from that selbri and we're safe. Otherwise, there is type opaquen=
ess in pipno2.
{.i mi pilno zo coi .i mi pilno lo plise .imi citka lo selpli}

On Apr 17, 2013, at 20:45, Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com> wrote:

> Technically you are missing zilkai/selbri as well as whatever we want to =
call ni abstractors (which are also functions), both of which are in the ap=
strake category naturally. That said, interesting proposal, but I'm uncerta=
in that selsku is in the same category as the rest. It's subtle because of =
the {se du'u} indirect discourse trick, but selsku seem to be by themselves=
 to me.
>=20
> mi'e la latro'a mu'o
>=20
>=20
> On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 11:05 AM, la gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> w=
rote:
> apstrake	x1 is a grammatical abstraction of type x2
>=20
> All lojban constructs can be divided either to=20
> {apstrake}: {bridi}, {fasnu}, {selsku}
> or {naly'apstrake}: {namcu}, {dacti}.
>=20
> Unfortunately JVS doesnt like {apstrake}. Alternatives are {astrato} (fro=
m Italian) or tcosiango {from Mandarin chou1xiang4}.
>=20
> {sucta} has been misused for this concept.
> --=20
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> =20
> =20
>=20
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<html><body bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><div><div>The thing about selsku is that so=
me text cannot be represented indirectly, e.g. zo quotes of non-selbri, suc=
h as {zo ui}.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>This raises a question. We fre=
quently say we pilno words. Is this usage correct? If we let pilno3 be a fu=
nction involving pilno2, then the type of pilno2 comes from that selbri and=
 we're safe. Otherwise, there is type opaqueness in pipno2.</div><div>{.i m=
i pilno zo coi .i mi pilno lo plise .imi citka lo selpli}<br><br>On Apr 17,=
 2013, at 20:45, Ian Johnson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:blindbravado@gmail.com">=
<a href=3D"mailto:blindbravado@gmail.com">blindbravado@gmail.com</a></a>&gt=
; wrote:<br><br></div><div></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D=
"ltr">Technically you are missing zilkai/selbri as well as whatever we want=
 to call ni abstractors (which are also functions), both of which are in th=
e apstrake category naturally. That said, interesting proposal, but I'm unc=
ertain that selsku is in the same category as the rest. It's subtle because=
 of the {se du'u} indirect discourse trick, but selsku seem to be by themse=
lves to me.<div>
<br></div><div>mi'e la latro'a mu'o</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><=
br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 11:05 AM, la glek=
i <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com" targe=
t=3D"_blank"></a><a href=3D"mailto:gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com"><a href=3D"m=
ailto:gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com">gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com</a></a>&gt;</s=
pan> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">apstrake<span style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap"=
>	</span>x1 is a grammatical abstraction of type x2<div><br></div><div>All =
lojban constructs can be divided either to&nbsp;</div>
<div>{apstrake}: {bridi}, {fasnu}, {selsku}</div><div>or {naly'apstrake}: {=
namcu}, {dacti}.</div><div><br></div><div>Unfortunately JVS doesnt like {ap=
strake}. Alternatives are {astrato} (from Italian) or tcosiango {from Manda=
rin chou1xiang4}.</div>
<div><br></div><div>{sucta} has been misused for this concept.</div><span c=
lass=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">

<p></p>

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