Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2013 06:50:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: la gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Should I quit learning Lojban?
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On Saturday, April 27, 2013 4:24:46 PM UTC+4, xorxes wrote:
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 4:55 AM, la gleki <gleki.is...@gmail.com<javascri=
pt:>
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, April 27, 2013 2:06:27 AM UTC+4, xorxes wrote:
>>
>>> =20
>>> There's one language I know of that fits that description: the language=
=20
>>> of the northern hemisphere of Tl=F6n. See http://en.wikipedia.org/**
>>> wiki/Tl%C3%B6n,_Uqbar,_Orbis_**Tertius<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tl%=
C3%B6n,_Uqbar,_Orbis_Tertius> or=20
>>> read the full story here: http://art.yale.edu/**
>>> file_columns/0000/0066/borges.**pdf<http://art.yale.edu/file_columns/00=
00/0066/borges.pdf>
>>>
>>
>> Damn it. It has been in my bookmarks for years. Anyway "it mooned" is=20
>> just {ca'o lunra} because obviously {lunra} is a verb. And I can't see m=
uch=20
>> difference from "it was the dog all o'er the road" from the Wave lessons=
.
>>
>
> "It mooned" is from the languages of the southern hemisphere:
>
> "The preceding applies to the languages of the southern hemisphere. In=20
> those of the northern hemisphere (on whose Ursprache there is very=20
> little data in the Eleventh Volume) the prime unit is not the verb, but=
=20
> the=20
> monosyllabic adjective. The noun is formed by an accumulation of=20
> adjectives. They do not say "moon," but rather "round airy-light on dark"=
=20
> or "pale-orange-of-the-sky" or any other such combination. In the=20
> example selected the mass of adjectives refers to a real object, but this=
=20
> is=20
> purely fortuitous."
>

Quote: <One of the imagined languages of Tl=F6n lacks nouns. Its central=20
units are "impersonal verbs qualified by monosyllabic suffixes or prefixes=
=20
which have the force of adverbs." Borges lists a Tl=F6nic equivalent of "Th=
e=20
moon rose above the water": hl=F6r u fang axaxaxas ml=F6, meaning literally=
=20
"Upward behind the onstreaming it mooned".>

As for "pale-orange-of-the-sky"  i can do that with tanru or lujvo. And btw=
=20
it's more of aUI or similar languages (even Ithkuil might do, and there is=
=20
also Arahau with only 100 root words which leads to the same kind of=20
problems as with aUI, see J.Clifford's lecture on youtube).

So again I can't see any problems with expressing that even in English.=20
Indeed it's just "pale-orange-of-the-sky" may be with a fixed meaning.=20
What's wrong?

--=20
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<br><br>On Saturday, April 27, 2013 4:24:46 PM UTC+4, xorxes wrote:<blockqu=
ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left=
: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div><br><br><div=
 class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 4:55 AM, la gleki <span dir=
=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"javascript:" target=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailt=
o=3D"CnFt1DDsNicJ">gleki.is...@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;p=
adding-left:1ex"><br><br>On Saturday, April 27, 2013 2:06:27 AM UTC+4, xorx=
es wrote:<div>
<div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bo=
rder-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:so=
lid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">&nbsp;<br><div><div class=3D"gmail_q=
uote">
<div>There's one language I know of that fits that description: the languag=
e of the northern hemisphere of Tl=F6n. See&nbsp;<a href=3D"http://en.wikip=
edia.org/wiki/Tl%C3%B6n,_Uqbar,_Orbis_Tertius" target=3D"_blank">http://en.=
wikipedia.org/<u></u>wi<wbr>ki/Tl%C3%B6n,_Uqbar,_Orbis_<u></u>Ter<wbr>tius<=
/a>&nbsp;or read the full story here:&nbsp;<a href=3D"http://art.yale.edu/f=
ile_columns/0000/0066/borges.pdf" target=3D"_blank">http://art.yale.edu/<u>=
</u>file<wbr>_columns/0000/0066/borges.<u></u>pdf</a></div>
</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div></div><div>Damn it. It =
has been in my bookmarks for years. Anyway "it mooned" is just {ca'o lunra}=
 because obviously {lunra} is a verb. And I can't see much difference from =
"it was the dog all o'er the road" from the Wave lessons.</div>
</blockquote><div><br></div><div>"It mooned" is from the languages of the s=
outhern hemisphere:</div><div><br></div><div><div>"The preceding applies to=
 the languages of the southern hemisphere. In&nbsp;</div>
<div>those of the northern hemisphere (on whose Ursprache there is very&nbs=
p;</div><div>little data in the Eleventh Volume) the prime unit is not the =
verb, but the&nbsp;</div><div>monosyllabic adjective. The noun is formed by=
 an accumulation of&nbsp;</div>
<div>adjectives. They do not say "moon," but rather "round airy-light on da=
rk"&nbsp;</div><div>or "pale-orange-of-the-sky" or any other such combinati=
on. In the&nbsp;</div><div>example selected the mass of adjectives refers t=
o a real object, but this is&nbsp;</div>
<div>purely fortuitous."</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br=
></div><div>Quote: &lt;One of the imagined languages of Tl=F6n lacks nouns.=
 Its central units are "impersonal verbs qualified by monosyllabic suffixes=
 or prefixes which have the force of adverbs." Borges lists a Tl=F6nic equi=
valent of "The moon rose above the water": hl=F6r u fang axaxaxas ml=F6, me=
aning literally "Upward behind the onstreaming it mooned".&gt;</div><div><b=
r></div><div>As for&nbsp;"pale-orange-of-the-sky" &nbsp;i can do that with =
tanru or lujvo. And btw it's more of aUI or similar languages (even Ithkuil=
 might do, and there is also Arahau with only 100 root words which leads to=
 the same kind of problems as with aUI, see J.Clifford's lecture on youtube=
).</div><div><br></div><div>So again I can't see any problems with expressi=
ng that even in English. Indeed it's just&nbsp;"pale-orange-of-the-sky" may=
 be with a fixed meaning. What's wrong?</div>

<p></p>

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