Received: from mail-pa0-f61.google.com ([209.85.220.61]:32827) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1UWrE9-0001c8-9V for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Mon, 29 Apr 2013 09:47:04 -0700 Received: by mail-pa0-f61.google.com with SMTP id lf10sf2336051pab.16 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2013 09:46:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:date:from:to:cc:message-id :in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version:x-original-sender :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=Xx9lgNYcvC6Tkx3HWEJC75suRNEtUNZs6FNSbPQCUtY=; b=wOlhWtr5c/AY+fWaLEQHXAGDvar9ShgNuDxM3M2pt4x6ipExdJTCAaVogMIo7M3ziw QW4kGdmLLnGxttw8eagr7F6TZDJJvUh9Y0uZ29xAFN/lo4vAtkYbPDesTn7s6XJ30dPb sSxYFXwnFlb44mLVolmEU9log/D8Z0bqGV0u7Vh2MtUVCHOcfpFohDXmSOGA3XUDAXTK GvdFeB/o5LHvWm8cJvt+6w9a6fawJZKdm47iU6neON2v7K1FRyw2WQ8OrHp5ya+SVMjQ YHFHDoUlv6+PsFnUkywf4P3hvVZI9o0+ViuMtGcsN/k5tfL+bXTmg1BjrSlKreGGLODo p6mw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:date:from:to:cc:message-id :in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version:x-original-sender :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=Xx9lgNYcvC6Tkx3HWEJC75suRNEtUNZs6FNSbPQCUtY=; b=qq80+AyhRMmA8Cz9pHgP/Du5de0eyaehzPCjp/2wtNPGyrRO5pCrdwGqvxiUByFpxe waFhi4m8lUsiefiQGHrfZwgF8C/JVKhCtdirAsfvwis+mn0Ix2KEIVGf0GkkAvtPFEr5 7J0lWNEMfU39Y8J/REKIgabyxehg/tihQ/XpKh4CGMXqTwY3f5pVM5Eri8Wu04MQdn3Z d3/PFgpqOFseWMo4zJukZ+daZ3K6n5+0d4Sh2HiGVjJBhSaAyW7Ea44khmajNnQw8M/V IKfzkBoL5DJTd1rMjCRE0+WdXspIqrqvWGQXaj3LBKbBVm1uZA2LMu2j5+3uWcZDFFZC A35w== X-Received: by 10.49.86.200 with SMTP id r8mr4534777qez.25.1367254010894; Mon, 29 Apr 2013 09:46:50 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.49.133.4 with SMTP id oy4ls1693260qeb.73.gmail; Mon, 29 Apr 2013 09:46:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.49.120.68 with SMTP id la4mr1421798qeb.35.1367254010446; Mon, 29 Apr 2013 09:46:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 09:46:49 -0700 (PDT) From: la gleki To: lojban@googlegroups.com Cc: John E Clifford Message-Id: <7785d32e-0214-46a2-a8d6-63a41951fdaf@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: <1367253575.24868.YahooMailNeo@web184401.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <517D5810.6030003@gmx.de> <1367253575.24868.YahooMailNeo@web184401.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: The Mad Proposals MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_315_570913.1367254009788" X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / ------=_Part_315_570913.1367254009788 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Monday, April 29, 2013 8:39:35 PM UTC+4, clifford wrote: > > Earlier this year, when I was working on criteria for a perfect loglang > with constant references to the existing specimens, one of the few flaws in > Lojban that emerged early in the study was the proliferation of > connectives. For almost all the cases except the sentential ones (basic in > logic, whatever may be the case in Lojban) there were clearer ways of > handling the situation (some of them remarkably rare, by the way) than > using a new connective. Some were even shorter. To be sure, these > efficiencies were in a system being built from scratch, without the inertia > of 20 years of development, but most look to be adaptable to existing > Lojban with some inevitable backward loss. > And so what are they? btw, another vote for the mad proposals is that we actually have no word for AND in Lojban. Instead we have three words which is stupid IMO. > ------------------------------ > *From:* MorphemeAddict > > *To:* loj...@googlegroups.com > *Sent:* Sunday, April 28, 2013 8:27 PM > *Subject:* Re: [lojban] Re: The Mad Proposals > > I came across it via la gleki on Facebook, but I couldn't figure out how > to vote on it in Google Plus or Groups or wherever it is. > > mu'o mi'e la stevon > > > > On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 1:10 PM, selpa'i >wrote: > > la .stivos. cu cusku di'e > > I whole-heartedly support this change. I'm not a regular user of Lojban, > though. > > > May I ask what motivated you to say that just then? Did you just randomly > run into this proposal now or does this have to do with the recent thread > about TAG connectives? I'm just wondering if this is coincidence. :) > > Lately, there has been more and more talk of GIJA (which it's usually > referred to by some, rather than "Mad Proposal", since, of course, its > proponents don't find it at all mad!). xorxes' "speak up now!" call might > finally be answered, albeit belatedly (20 years!). > > I wonder how many more people are silently in favor of GIJA. My estimate > right now is that there are (at least) 7 people in favor, almost all of > which use Lojban regularly. > > mu'o mi'e la selpa'i > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+un...@**googlegroups.com . > To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com > . > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/**groups/opt_out > . > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com . > To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com > . > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. ------=_Part_315_570913.1367254009788 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Monday, April 29, 2013 8:39:35 PM UTC+4, clifford wrote:
Earlier this year, when I was working on criteria for a perf= ect loglang with constant references to the existing specimens, one of the = few flaws in Lojban that emerged early in the study was the proliferation o= f connectives.  For almost all the cases except the sentential ones (b= asic in logic, whatever may be the case in Lojban) there were clearer ways = of handling the situation (some of them remarkably rare, by the way) than u= sing a new connective.  Some were even shorter.  To be sure, thes= e efficiencies were in a system being built from scratch, without the inert= ia of 20 years of development, but most look to be adaptable to existing Lo= jban with some inevitable backward loss.


And so what are they?
<= br>
btw, another vote for the mad proposals is that  we actu= ally have no word for AND in Lojban. Instead we have three words which is s= tupid IMO.

From: MorphemeAd= dict <lyt...@gmail.com>
To: loj...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 8:27 PM
<= b>Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: The= Mad Proposals

I came across it via la gleki on Facebook, but I coul= dn't figure out how to vote on it in Google Plus or Groups or wherever it i= s.  

mu'o mi'e la stevon



On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 1:10 PM, selpa'i <sel...@gmx.de> wrote= :
la .stivos. cu cusku di'e

I whole-heartedly support this change. I'm not a regular user of Lojban, though.

May I ask what motivated you to say that just then? Did you just randomly r= un into this proposal now or does this have to do with the recent thread ab= out TAG connectives? I'm just wondering if this is coincidence. :)

Lately, there has been more and more talk of GIJA (which it's usually refer= red to by some, rather than "Mad Proposal", since, of course, its proponent= s don't find it at all mad!). xorxes' "speak up now!" call might finally be= answered, albeit belatedly (20 years!).

I wonder how many more people are silently in favor of GIJA. My estimate ri= ght now is that there are (at least) 7 people in favor, almost all of which= use Lojban regularly.

mu'o mi'e la selpa'i


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You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com.
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Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den= .
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/grou<= wbr>ps/opt_out.



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