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From: MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 13:31:35 -0400
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Baby Words: "you're right" and orders.
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What's the difference between using {e'i} and using {ko}? When would you
use {e'i} without {ko}, and vice versa?

stevo (aka la stevon)


On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 1:14 PM, .arpis. <rpglover64+jbobau@gmail.com>wrote:

> Reading the BPFK definition of {e'i} here<http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+Irrealis+Attitudinals>,
> I feel like {.e'i do na broda} would translate to "You must not do
> {broda}", while {e'i ko na broda} would translate to "Don't {broda}". If
> this understanding is right, then there's no problem expressing what gleki
> wants, and selpa'i is subtly wrong. If I'm wrong, could someone point me to
> an explanation of why?
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 12:49 PM, la gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, April 29, 2013 8:34:24 PM UTC+4, Robin Powell wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> 1.  How would you mark a {ko} that's an order?  I use {e'o} for
>>> requests.  For "You must do this!" I've been using {ga'i}, but it's
>>> a tad unsatisfying.
>>>
>>
>> Now I wonder how to say "You have to do this" if {e'i} is taken.
>> It's time to update jbovlaste definitions because they are being
>> translated to other languages and these wrong definitions are being
>> multiplied.
>>
>>
>>> 2.  How would you say "that's right!" or "you're right!", i.e. when
>>> the kid brings me the object I've asked for?  I use {i'e} for lots
>>> of situations like that, but that doesn't convey correctness
>>> particularily.  Is {drani} OK here?  I'm not clear on what can do in
>>> the x1.
>>>
>>> -Robin
>>>
>>> --
>>> http://intelligence.org/ :  Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
>>> .i ko na cpedu lo nu stidi vau loi jbopre .i danfu lu na go'i li'u .e
>>> lu go'i li'u .i ji'a go'i lu na'e go'i li'u .e lu go'i na'i li'u .e
>>> lu no'e go'i li'u .e lu to'e go'i li'u .e lu lo mamta be do cu sofybakni
>>> li'u
>>>
>>>  --
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>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> mu'o mi'e .arpis.
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr">What&#39;s the difference between using {e&#39;i} and usin=
g {ko}? When would you use {e&#39;i} without {ko}, and vice versa?=A0<div><=
br></div><div style>stevo (aka la stevon)</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_ex=
tra">

<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 1:14 PM, .arpis.=
 <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rpglover64+jbobau@gmail.com" targe=
t=3D"_blank">rpglover64+jbobau@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquo=
te class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc so=
lid;padding-left:1ex">

<div dir=3D"ltr">Reading the BPFK definition of {e&#39;i} <a href=3D"http:/=
/www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+Irrealis+Attitudinals" target=3D"_blan=
k">here</a>, I feel like {.e&#39;i do na broda} would translate to &quot;Yo=
u must not do {broda}&quot;, while {e&#39;i ko na broda} would translate to=
 &quot;Don&#39;t {broda}&quot;. If this understanding is right, then there&=
#39;s no problem expressing what gleki wants, and selpa&#39;i is subtly wro=
ng. If I&#39;m wrong, could someone point me to an explanation of why?<br>


</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div><div class=3D"h5"><br><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 12:49 PM, la gleki <span dir=3D"lt=
r">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">glek=
i.is.my.name@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>


<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><br><br>On Monday, April 29, 2013 8:34:=
24 PM UTC+4, Robin Powell wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">


<br>1. =A0How would you mark a {ko} that&#39;s an order? =A0I use {e&#39;o}=
 for
<br>requests. =A0For &quot;You must do this!&quot; I&#39;ve been using {ga&=
#39;i}, but it&#39;s
<br>a tad unsatisfying.
<br></blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>Now I wonder how to say &quot;Yo=
u have to do this&quot; if {e&#39;i} is taken.</div><div>It&#39;s time to u=
pdate jbovlaste definitions because they are being translated to other lang=
uages and these wrong definitions are being multiplied.</div>


<div><div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:=
0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>2. =A0How would you say &quot;that&#39;s right!&quot; or &quot;you&#39;=
re right!&quot;, i.e. when
<br>the kid brings me the object I&#39;ve asked for? =A0I use {i&#39;e} for=
 lots
<br>of situations like that, but that doesn&#39;t convey correctness
<br>particularily. =A0Is {drani} OK here? =A0I&#39;m not clear on what can =
do in
<br>the x1.
<br>
<br>-Robin
<br>
<br>--=20
<br><a href=3D"http://intelligence.org/" target=3D"_blank">http://intellige=
nce.org/</a> : =A0Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
<br>.i ko na cpedu lo nu stidi vau loi jbopre .i danfu lu na go&#39;i li=
9;u .e
<br>lu go&#39;i li&#39;u .i ji&#39;a go&#39;i lu na&#39;e go&#39;i li&#39;u=
 .e lu go&#39;i na&#39;i li&#39;u .e
<br>lu no&#39;e go&#39;i li&#39;u .e lu to&#39;e go&#39;i li&#39;u .e lu lo=
 mamta be do cu sofybakni li&#39;u
<br>
<br></blockquote>

<p></p>

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=A0<br>
=A0<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br></div></div><span =
class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">-- <br>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e .arpis.<b=
r>

</font></span></div><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5">

<p></p>

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=A0<br>
=A0<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

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