Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 04:07:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: la gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Baby Words: "you're right" and orders.
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On Monday, April 29, 2013 11:27:41 PM UTC+4, .arpis. wrote:
>
>
> In particular, is there a difference between (1) and (2), and if so, what 
>> is it?
>>
>> (1) .i .e'o do mi sidju
>>     "Please help me."
>>
>> (2) .i .e'o ko mi sidju
>>     "Please help me. 
>
>
> Yes, there is a difference, but it's the sort that probably won't matter 
> outside of poetry or literary analysis. As you say, the latter is more 
> direct.
>
> To take another example, contrast {.e'o ko cliva} with {.e'o do cliva}: in 
> the latter, I might be more aware of (and maybe more interested in) the 
> possibility that a bouncer would throw you out.
>


if we assume that UI = sei ke'a broda se'u 
and then

.i brode sei ke'a broda se'u ~= lo nu brode cu broda

then

e'o do cliva ~= mi cpedu lo nu do cliva

ko cliva = do ko'oi cliva ~= mi [imperatively/hortatively say ] lo nu ba'e 
do cliva
e'o ko cliva = e'o do ko'oi cliva ~= mi cpedu lo nu do cliva ije 
mi [imperatively/hortatively say ] lo nu ba'e do cliva


> MorphemAddict: Imperative refers to a grammatical construct which carries 
> the pragmatics that the listener do something; command refers to any 
> statement that has such pragmatics and is also given from a (presumed) 
> position of power.
>
> "Close the window." is an imperative but may or may not be a command; 
> "Please close the window." is an imperative but probably not a command; 
> "You'd better close the window now!" is a command but not an imperative.
>

As many mix hortatives and imperatives then it's probably beter to call 
{ko'oi} a generalised version of imperatives and hortatives as it is hinted 
in the notes to this word.
 

>
> -- 
> mu'o mi'e .arpis.
>  

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<br><br>On Monday, April 29, 2013 11:27:41 PM UTC+4, .arpis. wrote:<blockqu=
ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left=
: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8=
ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
In particular, is there a difference between (1) and (2), and if so, what i=
s it?<br>
<br>
(1) .i .e'o do mi sidju<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; "Please help me."<br>
<br>
(2) .i .e'o ko mi sidju<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; "Please help me.
</blockquote></div><br></div><div>Yes, there is a difference, but it's the =
sort that probably won't matter outside of poetry or literary analysis. As =
you say, the latter is more direct.<br><br>

To take another example, contrast {.e'o ko cliva} with {.e'o do cliva}: in =
the latter, I might be more aware of (and maybe more interested in) the pos=
sibility that a bouncer would throw you out.<br></div></div></blockquote><d=
iv><br></div><div><br></div><div>if we assume that UI =3D sei ke'a broda se=
'u&nbsp;</div><div>and then</div><div><br></div><div>.i brode sei ke'a brod=
a se'u ~=3D lo nu brode cu broda</div><div><br></div><div>then</div><div><b=
r></div><div>e'o do cliva ~=3D mi cpedu lo nu do cliva</div><div><br></div>=
<div>ko cliva =3D do ko'oi cliva ~=3D mi [imperatively/hortatively say ] lo=
 nu ba'e do cliva</div><div>e'o ko cliva =3D e'o do ko'oi cliva ~=3D mi cpe=
du lo nu do cliva ije mi&nbsp;[imperatively/hortatively say ] lo nu ba'e do=
 cliva</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote"=
 style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-=
left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div></div><div>

<br></div><div>MorphemAddict: Imperative refers to a grammatical construct =
which carries the pragmatics that the listener do something; command refers=
 to any statement that has such pragmatics and is also given from a (presum=
ed) position of power.<br>

<br></div><div>"Close the window." is an imperative but may or may not be a=
 command; "Please close the window." is an imperative but probably not a co=
mmand; "You'd better close the window now!" is a command but not an imperat=
ive.<br clear=3D"all"></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>As many =
mix hortatives and imperatives then it's probably beter to call {ko'oi} a g=
eneralised version of imperatives and hortatives as it is hinted in the not=
es to this word.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" st=
yle=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-lef=
t: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>

</div><div><br>-- <br>mu'o mi'e .arpis.<br>
</div></div>
</blockquote>

<p></p>

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