Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 00:32:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: la gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Should I quit learning Lojban?
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On Wednesday, May 1, 2013 6:37:10 PM UTC+4, clifford wrote:
>
> Well, standard among those who care about such things (the logic that 
> keeps creeping in despite the best efforts of speakers and word makers). 
>


Please, stop posting about this in this topic. A separate one has been 
created.
 

>
> Sent from my iPad 
>
> On May 1, 2013, at 2:08, "Bob LeChevalier, President and Founder - LLG" <
> loj...@lojban.org <javascript:>> wrote: 
>
> > John E Clifford wrote: 
> >> Well, the "standard semantics" of Lojban makes the referents of all 'lo 
> >> broda' expressions things in the operant sense,  "the salient node in 
> >> the upward semilattice on the extension of {broda} under jest ) 
> >> (part-whole)", so anything between all the brodas and a microscopic 
> >> speck of broda goo, as the case requires. 
> > 
> > Since when does Lojban have a standard semantics?  Not while I worked on 
> the design - I knew (and still know) that I have too little understanding 
> of semantics to standardize anything. 
> > 
> > I tried at times to come up with rules of thumb useful for English 
> speakers learning Lojban (i.e translation strategies), but I don't think I 
> ever codified any of them, and certainly never made them part of the 
> language definition. 
> > 
> >> The Nootka experience is directly relevant here, since what you got 
> from 
> >> sentences were, in Lojban, merely complex selbri, not bridi at all for 
> >> lack of a sumti.  Nootka is apparently a property or process language 
> >> which can express complete sentences without a reference to things. 
> > 
> > The example I worked from, mentioned in some article, was in fact a 
> sentence expressed as a single word, presumably a brivla in Lojban terms, 
> so that was how I tried to translate it. 
> > 
> > If Nootka is indeed a property language, then probably other languages 
> from the same family are, as well.  I think that was Pacific Northwest 
> Amerind - no idea what other languages are related. 
> > 
> > lojbab 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Bob LeChevalier    loj...@lojban.org <javascript:>    www.lojban.org 
> > President and Founder, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 
> > 
> > -- 
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups "lojban" group. 
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> an email to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>. 
> > To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com<javascript:>. 
>
> > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. 
> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. 
> > 
> > 
>

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<br><br>On Wednesday, May 1, 2013 6:37:10 PM UTC+4, clifford wrote:<blockqu=
ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left=
: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">Well, standard among those who care ab=
out such things (the logic that keeps creeping in despite the best efforts =
of speakers and word makers).
<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Please, stop posting ab=
out this in this topic. A separate one has been created.</div><div>&nbsp;</=
div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex=
;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>Sent from my iPad
<br>
<br>On May 1, 2013, at 2:08, "Bob LeChevalier, President and Founder - LLG"=
 &lt;<a href=3D"javascript:" target=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"EAb=
mitWxAMcJ">loj...@lojban.org</a>&gt; wrote:
<br>
<br>&gt; John E Clifford wrote:
<br>&gt;&gt; Well, the "standard semantics" of Lojban makes the referents o=
f all 'lo
<br>&gt;&gt; broda' expressions things in the operant sense, &nbsp;"the sal=
ient node in
<br>&gt;&gt; the upward semilattice on the extension of {broda} under jest =
)
<br>&gt;&gt; (part-whole)", so anything between all the brodas and a micros=
copic
<br>&gt;&gt; speck of broda goo, as the case requires.
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt; Since when does Lojban have a standard semantics? &nbsp;Not while =
I worked on the design - I knew (and still know) that I have too little und=
erstanding of semantics to standardize anything.
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt; I tried at times to come up with rules of thumb useful for English=
 speakers learning Lojban (i.e translation strategies), but I don't think I=
 ever codified any of them, and certainly never made them part of the langu=
age definition.
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt;&gt; The Nootka experience is directly relevant here, since what yo=
u got from
<br>&gt;&gt; sentences were, in Lojban, merely complex selbri, not bridi at=
 all for
<br>&gt;&gt; lack of a sumti. &nbsp;Nootka is apparently a property or proc=
ess language
<br>&gt;&gt; which can express complete sentences without a reference to th=
ings.
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt; The example I worked from, mentioned in some article, was in fact =
a sentence expressed as a single word, presumably a brivla in Lojban terms,=
 so that was how I tried to translate it.
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt; If Nootka is indeed a property language, then probably other langu=
ages from the same family are, as well. &nbsp;I think that was Pacific Nort=
hwest Amerind - no idea what other languages are related.
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt; lojbab
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt; --=20
<br>&gt; Bob LeChevalier &nbsp; &nbsp;<a href=3D"javascript:" target=3D"_bl=
ank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"EAbmitWxAMcJ">loj...@lojban.org</a> &nbsp; &n=
bsp;<a href=3D"http://www.lojban.org" target=3D"_blank">www.lojban.org</a>
<br>&gt; President and Founder, The Logical Language Group, Inc.
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt; --=20
<br>&gt; You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google=
 Groups "lojban" group.
<br>&gt; To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, =
send an email to <a href=3D"javascript:" target=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-m=
ailto=3D"EAbmitWxAMcJ">lojban+un...@<wbr>googlegroups.com</a>.
<br>&gt; To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"javascript:" targe=
t=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"EAbmitWxAMcJ">loj...@googlegroups.com=
</a>.
<br>&gt; Visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/group/lojb=
an?hl=3Den" target=3D"_blank">http://groups.google.com/<wbr>group/lojban?hl=
=3Den</a>.
<br>&gt; For more options, visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/group=
s/opt_out" target=3D"_blank">https://groups.google.com/<wbr>groups/opt_out<=
/a>.
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt;=20
<br></blockquote>

<p></p>

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