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Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 19:02:16 -0400
Message-ID: <CA+gZtg+d0b2_nJFmgDXwOJ5d9QppYTQW31h8wyGiZ4LNVb=nrw@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] Time-(non)local sumti (was: Mixing tenses, on the
 beginners list)
From: Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com>
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On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 6:56 PM, Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com> wro=
te:

> I would say that if you are using "lo [ca] me mi ku" instead of plain "mi=
"
> then chances are you must be thinking of a plural "mi", be it spatially o=
r
> temporally. Otherwise why wouldn't you use plain "mi" instead? If you use
> "ca", then the suggestion is that the plurality occurs temporally
> (otherwise you would use something like "lo vi me mi", "lo vu me mi" to
> restrict it. This of course is not a full specification. As usual, the
> price of infinite precision is infinite verbosity. You could say "lo ca
> jenai pu me mi" to select the present me that excludes the past one, You
> could use "lo ze'e me mi" to indicate the one that has always been and
> always will be me and so on. I don't expect these kind of expressions to
> become common though because it doesn't seem to make much difference
> whether we think of objects as (time non-local) wholes or as strings of
> (time local) stages. For a distinction to be strongly marked in language =
it
> has to make a relevant difference.
>
This amounts to saying it can be local or nonlocal, but doesn't specify how
to *explicitly* state the distinction. The ability to make such
specifications (if the language supports them at all) is pretty much my
third axiom for Lojban design :)

mi'e la latro'a mu'o

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<div dir=3D"ltr">On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 6:56 PM, Jorge Llamb=EDas <span dir=
=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jjllambias@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jjll=
ambias@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote">
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra">=
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"im"><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(=
34,34,34)">I would say that if you are using &quot;lo [ca] me mi ku&quot; i=
nstead of plain &quot;mi&quot; then chances are you must be thinking of a p=
lural &quot;mi&quot;, be it spatially or temporally. Otherwise why wouldn&#=
39;t you use plain &quot;mi&quot; instead? If you use &quot;ca&quot;, then =
the suggestion is that the plurality occurs temporally (otherwise you would=
 use something like &quot;lo vi me mi&quot;, &quot;lo vu me mi&quot; to res=
trict it. This of course is not a full specification. As usual, the price o=
f infinite precision is infinite verbosity. You could say &quot;lo ca jenai=
 pu me mi&quot; to select the present me that excludes the past one, You co=
uld use &quot;lo ze&#39;e me mi&quot; to indicate the one that has always b=
een and always will be me and so on. I don&#39;t expect these kind of expre=
ssions to become common though because it doesn&#39;t seem to make much dif=
ference whether we think of objects as (time non-local) wholes or as string=
s of (time local) stages. For a distinction to be strongly marked in langua=
ge it has to make a relevant difference.=A0</span></div>
</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div style>This amounts to saying it c=
an be local or nonlocal, but doesn&#39;t specify how to *explicitly* state =
the distinction. The ability to make such specifications (if the language s=
upports them at all) is pretty much my third axiom for Lojban design :)<br>
<br></div><div style>mi&#39;e la latro&#39;a mu&#39;o</div></div></div></di=
v>

<p></p>

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