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Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 18:54:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] Why is there no noodle gismu?
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Not a very satisfying "definition" as the "usually" and "typically" show.=
=A0 (We pass over the fact that many noodle traditions don't use eggs and p=
robably more use vermiform shapes than ribbon ones).


________________________________
 From: la gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com=20
Sent: Thursday, May 2, 2013 12:24 PM
Subject: Re: [lojban] Why is there no noodle gismu?
=20


On Thursday, May 2, 2013 9:07:29 PM UTC+4, lojbab wrote:
selpa'i wrote:=20
>> The title basically says it all. I would like to have a gismu for=20
>> "noodle", as noodles are everywhere! Please don't suggest {grusko};=20
>> noodles come in all shapes and needn't be made from {gurni}.=20
>>=20
>> What do you call a fake noodle?=20
>
>I've stayed out of this thread hoping that the obvious question would be=
=20
>raised:=20
>
>Can you or someone give a definition of a "noodle", making it clear what=
=20
>is and is not to be considered?=20
>
>Here is what mw.com has=20
>> Definition of NOODLE=20
>> : a food paste made usually with egg and shaped typically in ribbon form=
=20
>
>which definition so obviously reflects a Lojban tanru, that it is=20
>impossible to see it as a language "primitive" (the word JCB used for=20
>"gismu", which I abandoned because of its polysemy). 13 words with 4=20
>gismu among them.=20
>
>djapexsri, though probably pexsri would be sufficient, and potentially=20
>broadly productive even outside of the food realm; Lojban words do not=20
>need to be 100% synonymous with English ones, and the few examples I can=
=20
>imagine for a non-food being described as pexsri would probably be just=20
>as clear as a tanru based on "noodle", and there likewise should be=20
>little confusion with paste-like ribbons that are not "pasta" in English=
=20
>(cake decorations, maybe?). =A0One could mention the egg as well, but it=
=20
>seems even less necessary.=20
>
>I note in passing that ALL of the variant meanings for "noodle" that are=
=20
>listed in mw.com have NOTHING to do with this base meaning, or even any=20
>of those 4 gismu. =A0In English, "noodle" is not a productive root.=20
>
>And for those who bother to look up the word "pasta", you will find that=
=20
>it means precisely "pesxu", though "djapesxu" would more probably=20
>reflect its normal usage, as described in the encyclopediac definition.=20
>
>(I'll note in passing that we actually did consider the question of=20
>"pasta" when creating the gismu list, with pesxu being determined as the=
=20
>solution. =A0Indeed, pasta should probably have been added to the set of=
=20
>synonyms in the definition.)=20
>

ra'u mi kanpe lo nu lo pesxu ka'e cidja po'onai vau je'u peiru'e

well, i guess pesxu can be not only a food?

=A0

>lojbab=20
>--=20
>Bob LeChevalier =A0 =A0loj...@lojban.org =A0 =A0www.lojban.org=20
>President and Founder, The Logical Language Group, Inc.=20
>
>
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<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:ti=
mes new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span>Not a very=
 satisfying "definition" as the "usually" and "typically" show.&nbsp; (We p=
ass over the fact that many noodle traditions don't use eggs and probably m=
ore use vermiform shapes than ribbon ones).<br></span></div><div><br></div>=
  <div style=3D"font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-=
size: 12pt;"> <div style=3D"font-family: times new roman, new york, times, =
serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <hr size=3D"1">  <font face=3D"=
Arial" size=3D"2"> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> la=
 gleki &lt;gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com&gt;<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight=
: bold;">To:</span></b> lojban@googlegroups.com <br> <b><span style=3D"font=
-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, May 2, 2013 12:24 PM<br> <b><spa=
n style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [lojban] Why is ther=
e no noodle
 gismu?<br> </font> </div> <div class=3D"y_msg_container"><br>
<div id=3D"yiv1208770873"><br><br>On Thursday, May 2, 2013 9:07:29 PM UTC+4=
, lojbab wrote:<blockquote class=3D"yiv1208770873gmail_quote" style=3D"marg=
in:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">selpa'=
i wrote:
<br>&gt; The title basically says it all. I would like to have a gismu for
<br>&gt; "noodle", as noodles are everywhere! Please don't suggest {grusko}=
;
<br>&gt; noodles come in all shapes and needn't be made from {gurni}.
<br>&gt;
<br>&gt; What do you call a fake noodle?
<br>
<br>I've stayed out of this thread hoping that the obvious question would b=
e=20
<br>raised:
<br>
<br>Can you or someone give a definition of a "noodle", making it clear wha=
t=20
<br>is and is not to be considered?
<br>
<br>Here is what <a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://mw.co=
m/">mw.com</a> has
<br>&gt; Definition of NOODLE
<br>&gt; : a food paste made usually with egg and shaped typically in ribbo=
n form
<br>
<br>which definition so obviously reflects a Lojban tanru, that it is=20
<br>impossible to see it as a language "primitive" (the word JCB used for=
=20
<br>"gismu", which I abandoned because of its polysemy). 13 words with 4=20
<br>gismu among them.
<br>
<br>djapexsri, though probably pexsri would be sufficient, and potentially=
=20
<br>broadly productive even outside of the food realm; Lojban words do not=
=20
<br>need to be 100% synonymous with English ones, and the few examples I ca=
n=20
<br>imagine for a non-food being described as pexsri would probably be just=
=20
<br>as clear as a tanru based on "noodle", and there likewise should be=20
<br>little confusion with paste-like ribbons that are not "pasta" in Englis=
h=20
<br>(cake decorations, maybe?). &nbsp;One could mention the egg as well, bu=
t it=20
<br>seems even less necessary.
<br>
<br>I note in passing that ALL of the variant meanings for "noodle" that ar=
e=20
<br>listed in <a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://mw.com/"=
>mw.com</a> have NOTHING to do with this base meaning, or even any=20
<br>of those 4 gismu. &nbsp;In English, "noodle" is not a productive root.
<br>
<br>And for those who bother to look up the word "pasta", you will find tha=
t=20
<br>it means precisely "pesxu", though "djapesxu" would more probably=20
<br>reflect its normal usage, as described in the encyclopediac definition.
<br>
<br>(I'll note in passing that we actually did consider the question of=20
<br>"pasta" when creating the gismu list, with pesxu being determined as th=
e=20
<br>solution. &nbsp;Indeed, pasta should probably have been added to the se=
t of=20
<br>synonyms in the definition.)
<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>ra'u mi kanpe lo nu lo pesxu ka'e cidj=
a po'onai vau je'u peiru'e</div><div><br></div><div>well, i guess pesxu can=
 be not only a food?</div><div><br></div><div>&nbsp;</div><blockquote class=
=3D"yiv1208770873gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-le=
ft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<br>lojbab
<br>--=20
<br>Bob LeChevalier &nbsp; &nbsp;<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow">loj...@lojba=
n.org</a> &nbsp; &nbsp;<a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http:/=
/www.lojban.org/">www.lojban.org</a>
<br>President and Founder, The Logical Language Group, Inc.
<br>
<br></blockquote>


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ut</a>.<br>
&nbsp;<br>
&nbsp;<br>
</div><br><br></div> </div> </div>  </div></body></html>

<p></p>

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