Received: from mail-wg0-f59.google.com ([74.125.82.59]:61776) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1UY5lX-0001og-Ij for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Thu, 02 May 2013 19:30:44 -0700 Received: by mail-wg0-f59.google.com with SMTP id b12sf227283wgh.14 for ; Thu, 02 May 2013 19:30:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:received-spf:mime-version :x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=afWjfz26oxi7LOWo/dHPME/qOeTLW5Xhs7/tULnVfgA=; b=bmT1v6rvdfx80mDJtYyWW6biTEs8kOYJPdGZgQDmTvC0jml7uYPioZIB9BNNsn1/ZZ MMN9EjtsFozThFz3LvIOdm9qQuzkSWx2qV/5+7VFZxB6bwMQpWj/5NCnqdKT4I7ObQTw Z6MO6cUSBuFklaMUVZdruOzM3+9uDmOkX34V/300fH6fDPCbzwOYKHkxoPaBQHo6kf+/ dwa3Zr7PESYzyGMi/de6LPMuox1+3iBlV+Q/BNygyrHtWH2dCfYwElq0a0jG4Nxzv5Jt 7E9m1SBkNwiWxgMKbZAPzSt4MZSIre3URQEocYRyItbKxHCre452+4tjVrpXaUVU/2Zt Uykg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:received-spf:mime-version :x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=afWjfz26oxi7LOWo/dHPME/qOeTLW5Xhs7/tULnVfgA=; b=uIBYMplRdgNEBSEZSdysGgg0quQK7TUL9uI+yWQECNBVQaAzdOPr+O9psz8OOSAcX6 bVHc2RbE/BCrWMdKQ1LWYk44jM5EfzEkhKdqpz02QGip56aNf60IPazpiE5mjuuWTHZ4 DUP8K9dRSRR2DRLG5atqx2HYQSjjwzcSVBZiVtKuCBaj2+U8tIJY5q7ov1DoOscpUaQG 66ZbkzMIVoJrzgebLFZ/KGQ30dbYJuJtIMnKE0LszPPLVhyj5NUuIghB08nlZk1jbzcv 32623Z3ISHKjMEZ0Ud9I9KvCFzFz+dmHyjC9a/wTVOhVI+4zPDpJ5eIu6MwGz+lZHT1R j8Kg== X-Received: by 10.180.92.41 with SMTP id cj9mr1009707wib.21.1367548223630; Thu, 02 May 2013 19:30:23 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.180.21.173 with SMTP id w13ls56958wie.49.canary; Thu, 02 May 2013 19:30:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.204.171.69 with SMTP id g5mr7060982bkz.8.1367548222046; Thu, 02 May 2013 19:30:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lb0-f173.google.com (mail-lb0-f173.google.com [209.85.217.173]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id r6si769385bkz.0.2013.05.02.19.30.21 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 02 May 2013 19:30:22 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.217.173 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.217.173; Received: by mail-lb0-f173.google.com with SMTP id t10so1144529lbi.18 for ; Thu, 02 May 2013 19:30:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.134.135 with SMTP id pk7mr3556669lbb.54.1367548221524; Thu, 02 May 2013 19:30:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.97.132 with HTTP; Thu, 2 May 2013 19:30:21 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1367547795.19621.YahooMailNeo@web184402.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1367501520.18899.YahooMailNeo@web184401.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1367545687.61732.YahooMailNeo@web184401.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1367547795.19621.YahooMailNeo@web184402.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 20:30:21 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Time-(non)local sumti (was: Mixing tenses, on the beginners list) From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.217.173 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e011841d6f5114504dbc721cb X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --089e011841d6f5114504dbc721cb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 {lo ze'e me mi}? On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 8:23 PM, John E Clifford wrote: > But you seem to have answered this question. As xorxes notes, our formula > 'lo ca me mi' or whatever, clearly indicates a temporally segmented mi, > 'mi' alone leaves the matter open. So how do we speak of the perduring mi? > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Ian Johnson > *To:* lojban@googlegroups.com > *Sent:* Thursday, May 2, 2013 9:08 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [lojban] Time-(non)local sumti (was: Mixing tenses, on the > beginners list) > > On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 9:48 PM, John E Clifford wrote: > > By context, as it says. Remember, we are not talking about the thing, > but about how we talk about the thing. I am what I am, but it is sometimes > useful to talk about temporally delimited chunks of me (as it were, maybe > clusters) and sometimes as the perduring me throughout time. The nice > thing about 'lo' is that it covers all options, down to temporo-spatial > minute bits of me, and selects the relevant one. > > The speaker != context. Context can indicate something, but my question > was about how the speaker can be explicit about it. That {lo} can zip > around is great, but we should be able to boss it around, too. > > mi'e la latro'a mu'o > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --089e011841d6f5114504dbc721cb Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
{lo ze'e me mi}?
<= br>
On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 8:23 PM, John E Cl= ifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wrote:
But you seem to have ans= wered this question.=A0 As xorxes notes, our formula 'lo ca me mi' = or whatever, clearly indicates a temporally segmented mi, 'mi' alon= e leaves the matter open.=A0 So how do we speak of the perduring mi?

=
From: Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.c= om>
To: lojban@googlegroups.c= om
Sent: Thursday, May 2= , 2013 9:08 PM

Su= bject: Re: [lojban] Time-(non)local sumti (was: Mixing tenses, on the beginners list)

On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 9:48 PM, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wrote:
By context, as it says.=A0 Remember, we are no= t talking about=A0 the thing, but about how we talk about the thing.=A0 I a= m what I am, but it is sometimes useful to talk about temporally delimited = chunks of me (as it were, maybe clusters) and sometimes as the perduring me= throughout time.=A0 The nice thing about 'lo' is that it covers al= l options, down to temporo-spatial minute bits of me, and selects the relev= ant one.
The speaker !=3D context. Context can indicat= e something, but my question was about how the speaker can be explicit abou= t it. That {lo} can zip around is great, but we should be able to boss it a= round, too.

mi'e la latro'a mu'o=A0
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=A0
=A0


--
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=A0
=A0



--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

--
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