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Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 19:52:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] Time-(non)local sumti (was: Mixing tenses, on the
 beginners list)
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 Content preview:  As reasonable a position as any. But again, remember that
   linguistic choices of this sort don't translate into metaphysics, thery are
    all fac,ons de parler, which will work with any metaphysics (another form
    of SWH bites the dust). [...] 
 
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As reasonable a position as any.=A0 But again, remember that linguistic cho=
ices of this sort don't translate into metaphysics, thery are all fac,ons d=
e parler, which will work with any metaphysics (another form of SWH bites t=
he dust).


________________________________
 From: Jacob Errington <nictytan@gmail.com>
To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" <lojban@googlegroups.com>=20
Sent: Thursday, May 2, 2013 9:32 PM
Subject: Re: [lojban] Time-(non)local sumti (was: Mixing tenses, on the beg=
inners list)
=20


On 2 May 2013 22:23, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wrote:

But you seem to have answered this question.=A0 As xorxes notes, our formul=
a 'lo ca me mi' or whatever, clearly indicates a temporally segmented mi, '=
mi' alone leaves the matter open.=A0 So how do we speak of the perduring mi=
?
>
>
>

I'd say that 'mi' alone is the perduring mi, and that {lo me mi} is roughly=
 equivalent to it (minus lo's ability to retrieve only salient referents / =
not-quite-referents, i.e. me-mi goo). Tacking extra specifications onto lo =
me mi is what gets at particular, time-local referents.

On a philosophical level, I'm not too fond of the idea of time-locally deli=
mited sumti, and I've always found ways to rephrase. A longlasting problem =
was "I'm better at swimming than I used to be," which, rather than with {zm=
adu}, I translate with {ba'o zenba}.
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<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:ti=
mes new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span>As reasona=
ble a position as any.&nbsp; But again, remember that linguistic choices of=
 this sort don't translate into metaphysics, thery are all fac,ons de parle=
r, which will work with any metaphysics (another form of SWH bites the dust=
).<br></span></div><div><br></div>  <div style=3D"font-family: times new ro=
man, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style=3D"font-family: =
times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir=3D"ltr=
"> <hr size=3D"1">  <font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"> <b><span style=3D"font=
-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Jacob Errington &lt;nictytan@gmail.com&gt;<=
br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> "lojban@googlegrou=
ps.com" &lt;lojban@googlegroups.com&gt; <br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:=
 bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, May 2, 2013 9:32 PM<br> <b><span style=
=3D"font-weight:
 bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [lojban] Time-(non)local sumti (was: Mixing=
 tenses, on the beginners list)<br> </font> </div> <div class=3D"y_msg_cont=
ainer"><br>
<div id=3D"yiv1077521990"><div dir=3D"ltr">On 2 May 2013 22:23, John E Clif=
ford <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:kali9putra=
@yahoo.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:kali9putra@yahoo.com">kali9put=
ra@yahoo.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><div class=3D"yiv1077521990gmail_extr=
a"><div class=3D"yiv1077521990gmail_quote">

<blockquote class=3D"yiv1077521990gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;b=
order-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div><div style=3D"font-size:1=
2pt;font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;"><div><span>But yo=
u seem to have answered this question.&nbsp; As xorxes notes, our formula '=
lo ca me mi' or whatever, clearly indicates a temporally segmented mi, 'mi'=
 alone leaves the matter open.&nbsp; So how do we speak of the perduring mi=
?<br>

</span></div><div><br></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div st=
yle=3D"">I'd say that 'mi' alone is the perduring mi, and that {lo me mi} i=
s roughly equivalent to it (minus lo's ability to retrieve only salient ref=
erents / not-quite-referents, i.e. me-mi goo). Tacking extra specifications=
 onto lo me mi is what gets at particular, time-local referents.</div>

<div style=3D""><br></div><div style=3D"">On a philosophical level, I'm not=
 too fond of the idea of time-locally delimited sumti, and I've always foun=
d ways to rephrase. A longlasting problem was "I'm better at swimming than =
I used to be," which, rather than with {zmadu}, I translate with {ba'o zenb=
a}.</div>

</div></div></div>


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ut</a>.<br>
&nbsp;<br>
&nbsp;<br>
</div><br><br></div> </div> </div>  </div></body></html>

<p></p>

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