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Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 07:30:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: What is official? (Was: [lojban] Why is there no noodle gismu?)
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 Content preview:  In re xorlo: you need to distinguish between changes and clarifications.
    sorlo was originally (and still is perhaps) somewhat unclear and there have
    been successive steps to clarify uncertainties. But not, I think, real changes
    (but then, I probably just use my own version and don't pay much attention
    to what else is going one). [...] 
 
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In re xorlo: you need to distinguish between changes and clarifications.=A0=
 sorlo was originally (and still is perhaps) somewhat unclear and there hav=
e been successive steps to clarify uncertainties.=A0 But not, I think, real=
 changes (but then, I probably just use my own version and don't pay much a=
ttention to what else is going one).


________________________________
 From: selpa'i <seladwa@gmx.de>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com=20
Sent: Friday, May 3, 2013 9:10 AM
Subject: What is official? (Was: [lojban] Why is there no noodle gismu?)
=20

la .lojbab. cu cusku di'e
> Ian Johnson wrote:
>> On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 6:37 PM, Bob LeChevalier, President and Founder -
>> LLG
>>=20
>>=A0 =A0  kanpe ki'a
>>=20
>> {kanpe} is a (the?) BPFK-recognized experimental gismu,
>=20
> Never heard of it.
>=20
> BPFK hasn't recognized any experimental gismu, or even the possibility
> of experimental gismu.=A0 There hasn't even been a procedure defined for
> doing so (nor has the BPFK even been authorized to make changes to the
> language other than as necessary to complete the baseline documentation,
> though that authorization is foreseen, and the BPFK itself has the power
> to decide what is "necessary").
>=20
> The *only* change to the language that BPFK has recognized is xorlo.

Does "recognized" mean accepted as official? As far as I can tell, not even=
 xorlo is immune to changes or future no-votes. From the "BPFK Procedures" =
page:

"A poll is attached to the proposal page, where people vote to indicate the=
ir approval of the proposal. Voters may change their vote at any time."

Anyone who was allowed to vote back then can change their mind and vote no =
today, so technically, the BPFK has not made any final decisions about anyt=
hing. Yet, xorlo seems commonly accepted (though not generally liked) and g=
ets described as "official".

(The xorlo proposal got changed relatively recently, in December 2011.)

I think it's problematic to cling to a baseline that is over a decade old. =
Lojban has evolved considerably in the meantime, and doing it this way, the=
 documentation might never catch up.

mu'o mi'e la selpa'i

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<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:ti=
mes new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span>In re xorl=
o: you need to distinguish between changes and clarifications.&nbsp; sorlo =
was originally (and still is perhaps) somewhat unclear and there have been =
successive steps to clarify uncertainties.&nbsp; But not, I think, real cha=
nges (but then, I probably just use my own version and don't pay much atten=
tion to what else is going one).<br></span></div><div><br></div>  <div styl=
e=3D"font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;=
"> <div style=3D"font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font=
-size: 12pt;"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <hr size=3D"1">  <font face=3D"Arial" size=
=3D"2"> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> selpa'i &lt;s=
eladwa@gmx.de&gt;<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> =
lojban@googlegroups.com <br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Sent:</s=
pan></b>
 Friday, May 3, 2013 9:10 AM<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Subj=
ect:</span></b> What is official? (Was: [lojban] Why is there no noodle gis=
mu?)<br> </font> </div> <div class=3D"y_msg_container"><br>
la .lojbab. cu cusku di'e<br>&gt; Ian Johnson wrote:<br>&gt;&gt; On Thu, Ma=
y 2, 2013 at 6:37 PM, Bob LeChevalier, President and Founder -<br>&gt;&gt; =
LLG<br>&gt;&gt; <br>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;  kanpe ki'a<br>&gt;&gt; <br>&gt;&=
gt; {kanpe} is a (the?) BPFK-recognized experimental gismu,<br>&gt; <br>&gt=
; Never heard of it.<br>&gt; <br>&gt; BPFK hasn't recognized any experiment=
al gismu, or even the possibility<br>&gt; of experimental gismu.&nbsp; Ther=
e hasn't even been a procedure defined for<br>&gt; doing so (nor has the BP=
FK even been authorized to make changes to the<br>&gt; language other than =
as necessary to complete the baseline documentation,<br>&gt; though that au=
thorization is foreseen, and the BPFK itself has the power<br>&gt; to decid=
e what is "necessary").<br>&gt; <br>&gt; The *only* change to the language =
that BPFK has recognized is xorlo.<br><br>Does "recognized" mean accepted a=
s official? As far as I can tell, not even xorlo is immune to
 changes or future no-votes. From the "BPFK Procedures" page:<br><br>"A pol=
l is attached to the proposal page, where people vote to indicate their app=
roval of the proposal. Voters may change their vote at any time."<br><br>An=
yone who was allowed to vote back then can change their mind and vote no to=
day, so technically, the BPFK has not made any final decisions about anythi=
ng. Yet, xorlo seems commonly accepted (though not generally liked) and get=
s described as "official".<br><br>(The xorlo proposal got changed relativel=
y recently, in December 2011.)<br><br>I think it's problematic to cling to =
a baseline that is over a decade old. Lojban has evolved considerably in th=
e meantime, and doing it this way, the documentation might never catch up.<=
br><br>mu'o mi'e la selpa'i<br><br>-- You received this message because you=
 are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.<br>To unsubscribe from=
 this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to
 lojban+<a ymailto=3D"mailto:unsubscribe@googlegroups.com" href=3D"mailto:u=
nsubscribe@googlegroups.com">unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>To post t=
o this group, send email to <a ymailto=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com" h=
ref=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com">lojban@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>Visi=
t this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.<br>For more =
options, visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out" target=
=3D"_blank">https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out</a>.<br><br><br><br><b=
r></div> </div> </div>  </div></body></html>

<p></p>

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