Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 04:14:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: la gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Robin retry: commands.
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On Tuesday, May 7, 2013 1:50:30 PM UTC+4, selpa'i wrote:
>
> la gleki cu cusku di'e 
> > On Tuesday, May 7, 2013 4:14:40 AM UTC+4, tsani wrote: 
> >     In case we're taking votes, I vote in favour of redefining it. 
> >     Dialectically, it is already used that way by the handful of typical 
> >     IRC jbopre. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I vote against redefining it. For me 
> > 
> > e'i = sei bilga 
> > ei = sei te javni 
> > e'o = sei cpedu 
> > 
> > and so on. 
> > 
> > if u redefine e'i as command then we lose {sei bilga} meaning. If you 
> > use .ei for that then we lose {sei te javni} meaning. 
>
> je'e .i va'o ku da tai ma minde .i zo'o ko na stidi tu'a lu sei minde 
> li'u .i pe'i lo nu minde cu vajni mutce .i .e'o do stidi su'o pa lu'a lo 
> te cuxna 
>

mi stidi zo'oru'esai di'e


soi/rei/xoi = sei bilga

ei = sei te javni = should/ought to

 
>
> > http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+Irrealis+Attitudinals has 
> the 
> > following text: 
> > 
> > "selpa'i uses {.ei} as "should" and {.e'i} as "must" (as in {.e'i mi'o 
> > denpa .i lo sorpeka pu'o zvati}), I (camgusmis) think that's pretty 
> > good. The {.e'e} here is obviously out of the question, and I think 
> > keeping something like "must" is worth it, too, and closer to what we 
> have." 
>
> ie .i mi pu cusku la'e di'u .i ku'i pe'i lo cnino smuni be zo .e'i ku 
> ji'a plixau 
>
> ni'o ta'o mi na sai tugni lo du'u la'e zo .e'e na ka'e se junri .i pe'i 
> prane smuni zo .e'e .i mi nelci mutce .i je'u zo .e'e zo .e'i zmadu lo 
> ka mi nelci lo se stidi smuni be ce'u kei lo barda .i na mo'u jdice fi 
> zo .e'i .i ku'i ja'a go'i fi zo .e'e 
>

xu zo'o cajebaku do po'o jbojdicypre


> > I don't know what happened to that obvious solution. 
>
> xu ja'a danfu .i za'a dai lo ji'a drata cu sidbo 
>

e'i si ei si xoi si sei bilga mi bazu troci lo ka stika lo tatoebas jufra
 

>
> > In any case please don't deprive me of {sei bilga} and {sei te javni}. 
>
> xu do birti lo du'u lu sei te javni li'u mapti da'i 
>

javni = x1 is a rule prescribing/mandating/requiring x2 (event/state) 
within system/community x3.
te javni = x1 (community consisting at least of one person) is required to 
do x2 under some rule/situation x3

li'a lo te javni be da na roroi bilga da

i JCB pu tugni mi pe ca to ba'a oidai la latro'a cu co'e mi vau u'i toi

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<br><br>On Tuesday, May 7, 2013 1:50:30 PM UTC+4, selpa'i wrote:<blockquote=
 class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1=
px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">la gleki cu cusku di'e
<br>&gt; On Tuesday, May 7, 2013 4:14:40 AM UTC+4, tsani wrote:
<br>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; In case we're taking votes, I vote in favour of rede=
fining it.
<br>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; Dialectically, it is already used that way by the ha=
ndful of typical
<br>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; IRC jbopre.
<br>&gt;
<br>&gt;
<br>&gt;
<br>&gt; I vote against redefining it. For me
<br>&gt;
<br>&gt; e'i =3D sei bilga
<br>&gt; ei =3D sei te javni
<br>&gt; e'o =3D sei cpedu
<br>&gt;
<br>&gt; and so on.
<br>&gt;
<br>&gt; if u redefine e'i as command then we lose {sei bilga} meaning. If =
you
<br>&gt; use .ei for that then we lose {sei te javni} meaning.
<br>
<br>je'e .i va'o ku da tai ma minde .i zo'o ko na stidi tu'a lu sei minde=
=20
<br>li'u .i pe'i lo nu minde cu vajni mutce .i .e'o do stidi su'o pa lu'a l=
o=20
<br>te cuxna
<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>mi stidi zo'oru'esai di'e</div><div><b=
r></div><div><br></div><div>soi/rei/xoi =3D sei bilga</div><div><br></div><=
div>ei =3D sei te javni =3D should/ought to</div><div><br></div><div>&nbsp;=
</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8=
ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>&gt; <a href=3D"http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+Irrealis+Att=
itudinals" target=3D"_blank">http://www.lojban.org/tiki/<wbr>BPFK+Section%3=
A+Irrealis+<wbr>Attitudinals</a> has the
<br>&gt; following text:
<br>&gt;
<br>&gt; "selpa'i uses {.ei} as "should" and {.e'i} as "must" (as in {.e'i =
mi'o
<br>&gt; denpa .i lo sorpeka pu'o zvati}), I (camgusmis) think that's prett=
y
<br>&gt; good. The {.e'e} here is obviously out of the question, and I thin=
k
<br>&gt; keeping something like "must" is worth it, too, and closer to what=
 we have."
<br>
<br>ie .i mi pu cusku la'e di'u .i ku'i pe'i lo cnino smuni be zo .e'i ku=
=20
<br>ji'a plixau
<br>
<br>ni'o ta'o mi na sai tugni lo du'u la'e zo .e'e na ka'e se junri .i pe'i=
=20
<br>prane smuni zo .e'e .i mi nelci mutce .i je'u zo .e'e zo .e'i zmadu lo=
=20
<br>ka mi nelci lo se stidi smuni be ce'u kei lo barda .i na mo'u jdice fi=
=20
<br>zo .e'i .i ku'i ja'a go'i fi zo .e'e
<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>xu zo'o cajebaku do po'o jbojdicypre</=
div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;mar=
gin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>&gt; I don't know what happened to that obvious solution.
<br>
<br>xu ja'a danfu .i za'a dai lo ji'a drata cu sidbo
<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>e'i si ei si xoi si sei bilga mi bazu =
troci lo ka stika lo tatoebas jufra</div><div>&nbsp;<br></div><blockquote c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px=
 #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>&gt; In any case please don't deprive me of {sei bilga} and {sei te jav=
ni}.
<br>
<br>xu do birti lo du'u lu sei te javni li'u mapti da'i
<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>javni =3D x1 is a rule prescribing/man=
dating/requiring x2 (event/state) within system/community x3.</div><div>te =
javni =3D x1 (community consisting at least of one person) is required to d=
o x2 under some rule/situation x3</div><div><br></div><div>li'a lo te javni=
 be da na roroi bilga da</div><div><br></div><div>i JCB pu tugni mi pe ca t=
o ba'a oidai la latro'a cu co'e mi vau u'i toi</div><div><br></div>

<p></p>

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