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[66.94.237.86]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id n78si1146444yhh.1.2013.05.17.18.32.18 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 17 May 2013 18:32:18 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 66.94.237.86 as permitted sender) client-ip=66.94.237.86; Received: from [66.94.237.126] by nm30.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 May 2013 01:32:17 -0000 Received: from [66.94.237.99] by tm1.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 May 2013 01:32:17 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1004.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 May 2013 01:32:17 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 885045.98211.bm@omp1004.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 17249 invoked by uid 60001); 18 May 2013 01:32:17 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 7yk0n.QVM1lTjRtkuzaCnkh7niRGzSZ6uAtL6nX7w54etWW 08wpiPkQr9_gW2wx9h.TrwcU.7KXQGrAOx47GKHH6yKFEHJr5UCaN5gpSx9t mCfYQqm9hdJ_p.l9RL2UOvLjzJoEU.Zwve5cePtUgKBtxvHQ7sgic04O57.E wQPJi8edp9LUBujOjEalpC4TZ8zu6kLZGlH9ypw7_7Arovjcm9JFpnHP423M o8lNaFEtXZvAt3S.v9iXqaS74744Qi_sh3bmiiclxg34mu8qK2iq.nkb.AD1 eqL3PpKxLwtnKudpHzzKJGtdquPb2D6pO41KtxLKsdjh8Tt9AkM__Wt3NIuM 0M.Jvtwes4XtA.tc8cq1aCJ5xbypDvxSwTKTiIvjWHkE1DxIHuF3VEO9UyHb QucL1Y8ynwZTM1uzU.BZd369xyivFQHcC8FSHbAuR8QThIef4_Z4Rkg6xmix 8CNfBdvz6JwdFAFbFS10L16F9lTiVIrWdYJCpX9rcw7Wl8CNDkT4LPOWuGll XYGuEoTkFIt0vOG3lh9KEEdSVWBPMTjZruVuzHsQ7la9eaV8GQACcvHhMNDE a3ZuamGQ0steukIUWkHUGC1DkXmIouMadsqAj6O4.msWk57gr5i5.1UzmPLl Ij0q6g3qszzeu9qgBiubiaIrDCnX7yfDmldsUELyXmPnmSgDOgyM4lvTCNDH 6Tqx0853BL3R60KdTRbLRTcIa5AQGRxS4T_GwCpv4pMs- Received: from [99.92.108.194] by web184403.mail.bf1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 17 May 2013 18:32:17 PDT X-Rocket-MIMEInfo: 002.001,UHJlc3VtYWJseSB0aGUgcXVlc3Rpb24gaW52b2x2ZXMgb25lIG9mIHRoZSBsb2dpY2FsICJvciIgKHByZWZlcmFibHkge2F9KSBhbmQgdGhlIGNvcnJlY3QgYW5zd2VyIGlzIHRvIG5hbWUgb25lLCBzYXkgIm5laXRoZXIiIG9yIHNheSAiYm90aCIsIHRoZSBpbXBsaWNpdCBxdWVzdGlvbiBiZWluZyAiV2hpY2ggZG8geW91IHdhbnQ_Ii7CoCBZb3UgY291bGQgYWxzbyB1c2Ugc2V0cyBmb3IgdGhlIHNhbWUgcHVycG9zZSBvZiBsYXlpbmcgb3V0IHRoZSBhdmFpbGFibGUgYWx0ZXJuYXRpdmVzLCBpZiB0aGVyZSABMAEBAQE- X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.142.542 References: <5d22d3a4-46ca-4f77-bff4-5aa52f193e13@googlegroups.com> <5171110D.3010200@gmx.de> <3a8a2111-e2a8-4c40-bd66-66c6e26523b0@googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <1368840737.12842.YahooMailNeo@web184403.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 18:32:17 -0700 (PDT) From: John E Clifford Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] 'good or simple' vs 'good, or simple' To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 66.94.237.86 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass header.i=@yahoo.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-6906265-1784492556-1368840737=:12842" X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 1 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "stodi.digitalkingdom.org", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Presumably the question involves one of the logical "or" (preferably {a}) and the correct answer is to name one, say "neither" or say "both", the implicit question being "Which do you want?". You could also use sets for the same purpose of laying out the available alternatives, if there were more than two. The choice is one thing, not a disjunction exactly, the disjunction merely spells out the parameters (you could use {onai} then both "neither" and "both" would be rejecting the offering). [...] Content analysis details: (0.1 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (kali9putra[at]yahoo.com) 0.0 DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED No valid author signature, adsp_override is CUSTOM_MED -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid ---6906265-1784492556-1368840737=:12842 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Presumably the question involves one of the logical "or" (preferably {a}) a= nd the correct answer is to name one, say "neither" or say "both", the impl= icit question being "Which do you want?".=A0 You could also use sets for th= e same purpose of laying out the available alternatives, if there were more= than two.=A0 The choice is one thing, not a disjunction exactly, the disju= nction merely spells out the parameters (you could use {onai} then both "ne= ither" and "both" would be rejecting the offering). ________________________________ From: MorphemeAddict To: lojban@googlegroups.com=20 Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 7:47 PM Subject: Re: [lojban] 'good or simple' vs 'good, or simple' =20 I'm not sure this is the same thing, but how does one distinguish in Lojban= between the ORs in "Coffee, or tea?", i.e., a choice between alternatives,= vs. the logical OR with truth values.=A0 stevo On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 4:21 PM, Michael Turniansky = wrote: =A0 I'm not quite sure what you mean by a "non-logical 'or'"? >=A0--gejyspa > > > >On Sat, Apr 20, 2013 at 6:53 AM, iesk wrote: > >ni'o la selpa'i ku cusku di'e >>>ni'o ie lo tokpona cu xamgu gi'a sampu >> >>ni'o sei banbau se'u zo gi'a logji valsi =A0.i mi te smuni lodo jufra la'= e zoi. aficalanguidjavlajbanistan. Toki Pona is good or simple .aficalangui= djavlajbanistan. mu'a =A0.i ti'e lo si'o xamgu keiku ju'e lo si'o sampu kei= ku se sidbo pa da lo selbau be lo tokpona sei dei jai nandu =A0.i mi kucli = .ibo da'i ma xe fanva zoi. gic. Toki Pona is good, or simple .gic. sei me'o= slaka bu cu se jundi .i va'i za'e friti su'ore lo valsi fi'o se tavla fi l= o mintu >> >>{gi'a} is a logical connector. In the context of Selpa'i's sentence, a no= n-logical 'or' could also be expected. Phrasing things differently to encir= cle the intended meaning. How to do that in Lojban? >> >>Also, my use of {mintu} is nonsense, I fear (mintu ma?). >> >>-- >>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "lojban" group. >>To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an= email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >>For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> >> > > --=20 >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups = "lojban" group. >To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an = email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >=A0 >=A0 > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. ---6906265-1784492556-1368840737=:12842 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Presumably the questi= on involves one of the logical "or" (preferably {a}) and the correct answer= is to name one, say "neither" or say "both", the implicit question being "= Which do you want?".  You could also use sets for the same purpose of = laying out the available alternatives, if there were more than two.  T= he choice is one thing, not a disjunction exactly, the disjunction merely s= pells out the parameters (you could use {onai} then both "neither" and "bot= h" would be rejecting the offering).

From: MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 7:47 PM
Subject: Re: [lojban] 'good or simp= le' vs 'good, or simple'
=
I'm not sure this is the same th= ing, but how does one distinguish in Lojban between the ORs in "Coffee, or = tea?", i.e., a choice between alternatives, vs. the logical OR with truth v= alues. 

stevo


On Fri, May 17, 201= 3 at 4:21 PM, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
  I'm no= t quite sure what you mean by a "non-logical 'or'"?
 --gejyspa


On Sa= t, Apr 20, 2013 at 6:53 AM, iesk <pa.fae@gmx.de> wrote:
ni'o la selpa'i ku cusku di'e<= br> >ni'o ie lo tokpona cu xamgu gi'a sampu

ni'o sei banbau se'u zo gi'a logji valsi  .i mi te smuni lodo jufra la= 'e zoi. aficalanguidjavlajbanistan. Toki Pona is good or simple .aficalangu= idjavlajbanistan. mu'a  .i ti'e lo si'o xamgu keiku ju'e lo si'o sampu= keiku se sidbo pa da lo selbau be lo tokpona sei dei jai nandu  .i mi= kucli .ibo da'i ma xe fanva zoi. gic. Toki Pona is good, or simple .gic. s= ei me'o slaka bu cu se jundi .i va'i za'e friti su'ore lo valsi fi'o se tav= la fi lo mintu

{gi'a} is a logical connector. In the context of Selpa'i's sentence, a non-= logical 'or' could also be expected. Phrasing things differently to encircl= e the intended meaning. How to do that in Lojban?

Also, my use of {mintu} is nonsense, I fear (mintu ma?).

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