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Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 06:29:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: [lojban-beginners] questions about lojban
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Because I suspect it bears on the confusion here somewhat, I should add tha=
t there is nothing odd about {lo tadni cu ge sruri lo dinja gi dasni l crin=
o creka} either, though it is strictly logically (but not linguistically) i=
ncomplete.


________________________________
 From: John E. Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" <lojban@googlegroups.com>=20
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 4:08 PM
Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: [lojban-beginners] questions about lojban
=20

Oh, hot damn!=A0 I haven't seen a myopic singular in a while. -- nor an exp=
lanation or justification in even longer.=A0 It would be strange for a myop=
ic singular (in the & sense) to do anything, including exist or even be.=A0=
 But there is nothing odd about {lo tadni cu sruri lo dinja}, from which I =
would infer-- did I not know it already -- that the expression doesn't refe=
r to such things (whatever they may be said to be), but just to ordinary ta=
dni=A0 and dinja going about their ordinary business in ordinary ways.

Sent from my iPad

On May 22, 2013, at 14:36, selpa'i <seladwa@gmx.de> wrote:

> la .pycyn. cu cusku di'e
>> Your final comments raise the issue of what your xorlo is
>> like -- clearly different from mine ("salient node ...") and apparently
>> making {lo broda} applicable to things totally unlike brodas (which
>> might, I suppose, be particularly bad cases of {le broda}).
>=20
> I wasn't presenting my view of xorlo, but merely asking a hypothetical qu=
estion. Some of this comes from the time when {ci lo mu bakni} meant "three=
 groups of five cows" and {PA lo broda} was defined to be quantifying over =
a singluar Broda (so the {lo} could be dropped). The final version of xorlo=
 doesn't have this anymore, so now {lo broda} must be able to create plural=
 groups, which it obviously does, or else lo tadni could not sruri a dinju.=
 Still, I'm not sure if, when taking {lo tadni} to be singular even in the =
sruri case, it's just English that makes it sound strange, or if it really =
is strange. By my comment I was trying to "invite" people to try to think a=
bout this very question but without going through English first and to see =
if there might not be some sense in it. In more slightly different terms: W=
ould it be strange for a myopic singular student to surround a building?
>=20
> mu'o mi'e la selpa'i
>=20
> --=20
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups=
 "lojban" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an=
 email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
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> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>=20
>=20

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<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:ti=
mes new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div>Because I suspec=
t it bears on the confusion here somewhat, I should add that there is nothi=
ng odd about {lo tadni cu ge sruri lo dinja gi dasni l crino creka} either,=
 though it is strictly logically (but not linguistically) incomplete.<br></=
div>  <div style=3D"font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; f=
ont-size: 12pt;"> <div style=3D"font-family: times new roman, new york, tim=
es, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <hr size=3D"1">  <font face=
=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b=
> John E. Clifford &lt;kali9putra@yahoo.com&gt;<br> <b><span style=3D"font-=
weight: bold;">To:</span></b> "lojban@googlegroups.com" &lt;lojban@googlegr=
oups.com&gt; <br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> We=
dnesday, May 22, 2013 4:08 PM<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:
 bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [lojban] Re: [lojban-beginners] questions a=
bout lojban<br> </font> </div> <div class=3D"y_msg_container"><br>
Oh, hot damn!&nbsp; I haven't seen a myopic singular in a while. -- nor an =
explanation or justification in even longer.&nbsp; It would be strange for =
a myopic singular (in the &amp; sense) to do anything, including exist or e=
ven be.&nbsp; But there is nothing odd about {lo tadni cu sruri lo dinja}, =
from which I would infer-- did I not know it already -- that the expression=
 doesn't refer to such things (whatever they may be said to be), but just t=
o ordinary tadni&nbsp; and dinja going about their ordinary business in ord=
inary ways.<br><br>Sent from my iPad<br><br>On May 22, 2013, at 14:36, selp=
a'i &lt;<a ymailto=3D"mailto:seladwa@gmx.de" href=3D"mailto:seladwa@gmx.de"=
>seladwa@gmx.de</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br>&gt; la .pycyn. cu cusku di'e<br>&gt;=
&gt; Your final comments raise the issue of what your xorlo is<br>&gt;&gt; =
like -- clearly different from mine ("salient node ...") and apparently<br>=
&gt;&gt; making {lo broda} applicable to things totally unlike brodas
 (which<br>&gt;&gt; might, I suppose, be particularly bad cases of {le brod=
a}).<br>&gt; <br>&gt; I wasn't presenting my view of xorlo, but merely aski=
ng a hypothetical question. Some of this comes from the time when {ci lo mu=
 bakni} meant "three groups of five cows" and {PA lo broda} was defined to =
be quantifying over a singluar Broda (so the {lo} could be dropped). The fi=
nal version of xorlo doesn't have this anymore, so now {lo broda} must be a=
ble to create plural groups, which it obviously does, or else lo tadni coul=
d not sruri a dinju. Still, I'm not sure if, when taking {lo tadni} to be s=
ingular even in the sruri case, it's just English that makes it sound stran=
ge, or if it really is strange. By my comment I was trying to "invite" peop=
le to try to think about this very question but without going through Engli=
sh first and to see if there might not be some sense in it. In more slightl=
y different terms: Would it be strange for a myopic singular student
 to surround a building?<br>&gt; <br>&gt; mu'o mi'e la selpa'i<br>&gt; <br>=
&gt; -- <br>&gt; You received this message because you are subscribed to th=
e Google Groups "lojban" group.<br>&gt; To unsubscribe from this group and =
stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+<a ymailto=3D"mailto=
:unsubscribe@googlegroups.com" href=3D"mailto:unsubscribe@googlegroups.com"=
>unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>&gt; To post to this group, send emai=
l to <a ymailto=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com" href=3D"mailto:lojban@go=
oglegroups.com">lojban@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>&gt; Visit this group at ht=
tp://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.<br>&gt; For more options, visi=
t <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out</a>.<br>&gt; <br>&gt; <br><br>-- <br=
>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups =
"lojban" group.<br>To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails=
 from
 it, send an email to lojban+<a ymailto=3D"mailto:unsubscribe@googlegroups.=
com" href=3D"mailto:unsubscribe@googlegroups.com">unsubscribe@googlegroups.=
com</a>.<br>To post to this group, send email to <a ymailto=3D"mailto:lojba=
n@googlegroups.com" href=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com">lojban@googlegr=
oups.com</a>.<br>Visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/gr=
oup/lojban?hl=3Den" target=3D"_blank">http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
?hl=3Den</a>.<br>For more options, visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.c=
om/groups/opt_out" target=3D"_blank">https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_o=
ut</a>.<br><br><br><br><br></div> </div> </div>  </div></body></html>

<p></p>

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