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Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 15:42:05 -0400
Message-ID: <CAKOEKkQwpYZXsyFfBY=5exiRmGTbJ0Es3jWJSKRWq1ZX_3-Uxg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] Why is there no noodle gismu?
From: Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>
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 Wow... lots of different stuff in this thread.

  1) I agree with Robin that in most English speakers' heads (cooks
aside?), a "paste" is, well, gee, much like the the lojban definition of
"pesxu", which includes "mud/slurry/puklp/mash" and "[soft,
smooth-textured, moist solid]"  When dried, pasta is not moist, or soft,
and certainly not a mud or slurry.  Nor is it after being cooked.
 Therefore I don't think "pesxu" belongs in the veljvo be fo lo  lojbo
xelfanva be zoi gy pasta gy, since at most points in times of encountering
it, it is not a slurry.

  2)  Hmmm.. I suggested (and had accepted)  "mayvpesxu" for
oatmeal/porridge in Karl Naylor's 2007 translation of Goldilocks
http://mail.lojban.org/lists/lojban-beginners/msg04798.html, but I don't
see it in jbovlaste.  Corrected.

  3)  uasai  Didn't know that buckwheat isn't a grain.

  4) side, culturally non-neutral note -- In US government regulations, a
"noodle" must contain eggs and be ribbon shaped.
http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfCFR/CFRSearch.cfm?CFRPart=139&showFR=1
 (except
chow mein noodles, Ramen noodles, and other "Oriental noodles")

      --gejyspa


On Sat, May 4, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Robin Lee Powell <
rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote:

> On Fri, May 03, 2013 at 11:39:53PM -0700, Robin Lee Powell wrote:
> > On Fri, May 03, 2013 at 05:28:17AM -0400, Robert LeChevalier
> > wrote:
> > > Robin Lee Powell wrote:
> > > >>>*Why* do people keep talking about {pesxu}?  My noodles are
> > > >>>*not* a paste!
> > > >>
> > > >>But pasta IS "paste", by definition, whether your pasta is or
> > > >>not.
> > > >
> > > >The spaggheti I buy is not a paste.  When I cook it, it is not
> > > >paste.  When I eat it, it is not paste.
> > >
> > > The (English) dictionary says otherwise.
> >
> > I don't care.
>
> To be slightly more useful:
>
> In my dialect, no-one would *ever* point at a bowl of spaggheti or
> fettucini or tortellini or ravioli and say "Wow, that's some nice
> paste you've got there".  It just ... no.
>
> Similarily, no-one would ever point at a metal knife and say "What a
> great rock!".
>
> It is true that pasta was once a paste, and it is true that metal
> used to be a rock, but in my dialect they are *not* synonyms.  If
> they are in your dialect, well, that's drift, but I'm a native
> speaker, so we don't actually get to argue about this, merely state
> the difference and move on.
>
> But I think it's far more likely that you're pushing the point for
> sake of argument, and I'd like you to stop.
>
> -Robin
>
> --
> http://intelligence.org/ :  Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
> .i ko na cpedu lo nu stidi vau loi jbopre .i danfu lu na go'i li'u .e
> lu go'i li'u .i ji'a go'i lu na'e go'i li'u .e lu go'i na'i li'u .e
> lu no'e go'i li'u .e lu to'e go'i li'u .e lu lo mamta be do cu sofybakni
> li'u
>
> --
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> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">=A0Wow... lots of different stuff in this thread.<div><br>=
</div><div>=A0 1) I agree with Robin that in most English speakers&#39; hea=
ds (cooks aside?), a &quot;paste&quot; is, well, gee, much like the the loj=
ban definition of &quot;pesxu&quot;, which includes &quot;mud/slurry/puklp/=
mash&quot; and &quot;[soft, smooth-textured, moist solid]&quot; =A0When dri=
ed, pasta is not moist, or soft, and certainly not a mud or slurry. =A0Nor =
is it after being cooked. =A0Therefore I don&#39;t think &quot;pesxu&quot; =
belongs in the veljvo be fo lo =A0lojbo xelfanva be zoi gy pasta gy, since =
at most points in times of encountering it, it is not a slurry.</div>
<div><br></div><div>=A0 2) =A0Hmmm.. I suggested (and had accepted) =A0&quo=
t;mayvpesxu&quot; for oatmeal/porridge in Karl Naylor&#39;s 2007 translatio=
n of Goldilocks=A0<a href=3D"http://mail.lojban.org/lists/lojban-beginners/=
msg04798.html">http://mail.lojban.org/lists/lojban-beginners/msg04798.html<=
/a>, but I don&#39;t see it in jbovlaste. =A0Corrected.</div>
<div><br></div><div style>=A0 3) =A0uasai =A0Didn&#39;t know that buckwheat=
 isn&#39;t a grain.</div><div style><br></div><div style>=A0 4) side, cultu=
rally non-neutral note -- In US government regulations, a &quot;noodle&quot=
; must contain eggs and be ribbon shaped.=A0<a href=3D"http://www.accessdat=
a.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfCFR/CFRSearch.cfm?CFRPart=3D139&amp;showFR=
=3D1">http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfCFR/CFRSearch.cfm=
?CFRPart=3D139&amp;showFR=3D1</a>=A0=A0(except chow mein noodles, Ramen noo=
dles, and other &quot;Oriental noodles&quot;)</div>
<div style><br></div><div style>=A0 =A0 =A0 --gejyspa</div><div style><br><=
/div><div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><=
br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, May 4, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Robin Lee=
 Powell <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org=
" target=3D"_blank">rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;p=
adding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"im">On Fri, May 03, 2013 at 11:39:53PM -0700=
, Robin Lee Powell wrote:<br>

&gt; On Fri, May 03, 2013 at 05:28:17AM -0400, Robert LeChevalier<br>
&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt; Robin Lee Powell wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;*Why* do people keep talking about {pesxu}? =A0My noo=
dles are<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;*not* a paste!<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;But pasta IS &quot;paste&quot;, by definition, whether yo=
ur pasta is or<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;not.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;The spaggheti I buy is not a paste. =A0When I cook it, it is =
not<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;paste. =A0When I eat it, it is not paste.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; The (English) dictionary says otherwise.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I don&#39;t care.<br>
<br>
</div>To be slightly more useful:<br>
<br>
In my dialect, no-one would *ever* point at a bowl of spaggheti or<br>
fettucini or tortellini or ravioli and say &quot;Wow, that&#39;s some nice<=
br>
paste you&#39;ve got there&quot;. =A0It just ... no.<br>
<br>
Similarily, no-one would ever point at a metal knife and say &quot;What a<b=
r>
great rock!&quot;.<br>
<br>
It is true that pasta was once a paste, and it is true that metal<br>
used to be a rock, but in my dialect they are *not* synonyms. =A0If<br>
they are in your dialect, well, that&#39;s drift, but I&#39;m a native<br>
speaker, so we don&#39;t actually get to argue about this, merely state<br>
the difference and move on.<br>
<br>
But I think it&#39;s far more likely that you&#39;re pushing the point for<=
br>
sake of argument, and I&#39;d like you to stop.<br>
<div class=3D"im"><br>
-Robin<br>
<br>
--<br>
<a href=3D"http://intelligence.org/" target=3D"_blank">http://intelligence.=
org/</a> : =A0Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.<br>
.i ko na cpedu lo nu stidi vau loi jbopre .i danfu lu na go&#39;i li&#39;u =
.e<br>
lu go&#39;i li&#39;u .i ji&#39;a go&#39;i lu na&#39;e go&#39;i li&#39;u .e =
lu go&#39;i na&#39;i li&#39;u .e<br>
lu no&#39;e go&#39;i li&#39;u .e lu to&#39;e go&#39;i li&#39;u .e lu lo mam=
ta be do cu sofybakni li&#39;u<br>
<br>
</div><div class=3D""><div class=3D"h5">--<br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div>

<p></p>

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