Date: Sat, 25 May 2013 21:45:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: la arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Robin retry: commands.
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On Saturday, May 25, 2013 11:45:25 PM UTC+4, Betsemes wrote:
>
> On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 12:21 PM, la arxokuna 
> <gleki.is...@gmail.com <javascript:>> wrote: 
> > xu do pu viska zo xei 
>
> Okay, so xei is being used instead of rei to mean fourteen. According 
> to http://dag.github.io/cll/4/2/, those cmavo beginning with "x" are 
> reserved for experimental use, so I see xei is experimental. But what 
> to do with "xei" once a substitute for "rei" is officially approved to 
> mean 14? Maybe pick one of those I listed on my mail before? Or maybe, 
> the use of those "xVV" cmavo is now more permanent, is it? 
>

{rei}  may indeed lead to confusion with {re} as they are both numbers. So 
speaking in terms of practicism {xei} is preferable.
But then {rei} is useless. Let's look at the 
corpus: http://www.lojban.org/corpus/search/rei
I could count only 5 (!) real usages of {rei}. So why bother? In the corpus 
we have many more occurrencies of other words that have never been properly 
defined and/or entered into jvs.

As for commands I'm sure it's an utterly important thing.
So using rei for command imperatives and {reinai} for prohibitives would be 
nice (of course {xoi} can also be used but {rei} reminds of {.ei} so ...)
Also the sound [r] has subliminal impression of resoluteness in many 
languages.
Three-syllable cmavo cluster for prohibitives would be too verbose.

the CLL was written 16 years ago. Such words as {xo'e}, {xo'o}, {xa'o} are 
used many more times than some even one-syllable cmavo.
So although officially {xo'e} is experimental it's de facto one of the key 
concepts of the language. The same for the other two xV'V.

For me {.e'i}=to have to
{.ei} = should/ought to

May be experts in English can explain later the difference between them but 
I'm pretty sure I can feel it. So I don't want to lose those two meanings.

mu'o mi'e la gleki arxokuna

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<br><br>On Saturday, May 25, 2013 11:45:25 PM UTC+4, Betsemes wrote:<blockq=
uote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-lef=
t: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 12:21 PM, la =
arxokuna
<br>&lt;<a href=3D"javascript:" target=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"=
Mw2sEvgCVbMJ">gleki.is...@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
<br>&gt; xu do pu viska zo xei
<br>
<br>Okay, so xei is being used instead of rei to mean fourteen. According
<br>to <a href=3D"http://dag.github.io/cll/4/2/" target=3D"_blank">http://d=
ag.github.io/cll/4/2/</a>, those cmavo beginning with "x" are
<br>reserved for experimental use, so I see xei is experimental. But what
<br>to do with "xei" once a substitute for "rei" is officially approved to
<br>mean 14? Maybe pick one of those I listed on my mail before? Or maybe,
<br>the use of those "xVV" cmavo is now more permanent, is it?
<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>{rei} &nbsp;may indeed lead to confusi=
on with {re} as they are both numbers. So speaking in terms of practicism {=
xei} is preferable.</div><div>But then {rei} is useless. Let's look at the =
corpus:&nbsp;http://www.lojban.org/corpus/search/rei</div><div>I could coun=
t only 5 (!) real usages of {rei}. So why bother? In the corpus we have man=
y more occurrencies of other words that have never been properly defined an=
d/or entered into jvs.<br></div><div><br></div><div>As for commands I'm sur=
e it's an utterly important thing.</div><div>So using rei for command imper=
atives and {reinai} for prohibitives would be nice (of course {xoi} can als=
o be used but {rei} reminds of {.ei} so ...)</div><div>Also the sound [r] h=
as subliminal impression of&nbsp;resoluteness in many languages.</div><div>=
Three-syllable cmavo cluster for prohibitives would be too verbose.</div><d=
iv><br></div><div>the CLL was written 16 years ago. Such words as {xo'e}, {=
xo'o}, {xa'o} are used many more times than some even one-syllable cmavo.</=
div><div>So although officially {xo'e} is experimental it's de facto one of=
 the key concepts of the language. The same for the other two xV'V.</div><d=
iv><br></div><div>For me {.e'i}=3Dto have to</div><div>{.ei} =3D should/oug=
ht to</div><div><br></div><div>May be experts in English can explain later =
the difference between them but I'm pretty sure I can feel it. So I don't w=
ant to lose those two meanings.</div><div><br></div><div>mu'o mi'e la gleki=
 arxokuna</div>

<p></p>

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