Date: Sun, 26 May 2013 04:38:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: la arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Message-Id: <4c613eac-5ca0-4710-8223-78b868b3e2ce@googlegroups.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAHxnAmJbextGSbD3cCWiCcCKup4LMwMYJYYZqXz=EcLrLu0RzQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20130504201243.GE20411@stodi.digitalkingdom.org>
 <51856E57.2010808@gmx.de>
 <20130504202515.GG20411@stodi.digitalkingdom.org>
 <CAHxnAm+NUxq=seQpKCgLT9Wmoouj4ypJMZeXBxNFDz3m3s8v_Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <55921D19-DB32-4D41-B6E9-1552B5BC9AB3@yahoo.com>
 <CAHxnAmKZTxe4Ps0H0WhVyY2k3WoiFi3=3zXsgRoW3EAg3jpJEw@mail.gmail.com>
 <3A8DBDCA-994A-4A20-9BAD-A3A4F3561B49@yahoo.com>
 <CAHxnAmLZ0WLPyTWqfLj=dsh+kBDcWdkh+qmrVnEJNs9mteoCZw@mail.gmail.com>
 <5F42DC95-D2C4-4B0D-B018-A4BC82AAFB06@yahoo.com>
 <CAHiXx=MzU2uukh7VfJsfOREStCkY3pBrDVKzCFghmRLumZA3Xg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHxnAmK7VEvD+7n1YB1hd4S0EqK0GBTOWRdG6fppAvfoPsFP4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALm==BUm693hFg+hstkOmEDM16x_w=z56oJ8oJgp-06Bf1DCtQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOQ8VDWLdPm7D_UqVK0FVkOaGrXCeUxuyESyt1QVfhUEkeL=-g@mail.gmail.com>
 <6f8da748-aa03-4c4c-bbb2-c7662790621c@googlegroups.com>
 <5188CE66.7050209@gmx.de>
 <50148f9d-a57a-4c32-a469-81e20a08d583@googlegroups.com>
 <518903AC.6070807@gmx.de>
 <b52b06a4-fe53-41f3-ada9-220d926de01c@googlegroups.com>
 <CAHxnAmJjZkt-RH9s+YFCYk5MkH8azOtJiM-amnPDYLXR4kP1Kg@mail.gmail.com>
 <122cf11e-daf0-4c8f-9186-c370a8faee77@googlegroups.com>
 <CAHxnAmJ1gUXMmuE6=GnG5mU=GmSx8hHeDFtG6cdwKpgN+xLiTg@mail.gmail.com>
 <53d4061c-1052-473c-9f94-f8a6e54474fb@googlegroups.com>
 <CAHxnAm+nHWAa4T0rBehP2wPbmCikbpxmnzBFojJW5VYMK_fh4Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <6040e08c-2737-4a67-8e60-1ab3e3336757@googlegroups.com>
 <CAHxnAmJbextGSbD3cCWiCcCKup4LMwMYJYYZqXz=EcLrLu0RzQ@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] Robin retry: commands.
MIME-Version: 1.0
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com
Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 
	boundary="----=_Part_2479_25554437.1369568319903"
X-Spam_score: -0.1
X-Spam_score_int: 0
X-Spam_bar: /

------=_Part_2479_25554437.1369568319903
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1


On Sunday, May 26, 2013 3:04:07 PM UTC+4, Betsemes wrote:
>
> Just for the record and just in case; I'm being inquisitive only. I 
> just am asking questions. I consider the topic of commands, a topic of 
> importance; so I don't want it to just die away without a proper 
> conclusion as it seemed to be happening. I want a solution. I'm not 
> being confrontational. 
>

u'i mi si'a do jegi na'e damba gi na'e pevdamba

i e'u mi'o damba lo po'o fagri poi jelgau lo ricfoi


> Also, I paused replying to this discussion for a few days to learn the 
> lojban words the fluents were introducing, something I'm still doing, 
> because I'm not fluent yet. That's why I insisted on replying in my 
> non-native English. 
>
> That said, back to topic. 
>
> On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 12:45 AM, la arxokuna 
> <gleki.is...@gmail.com <javascript:>> wrote: 
> > {rei}  may indeed lead to confusion with {re} as they are both numbers. 
> So 
> > speaking in terms of practicism {xei} is preferable. 
> > But then {rei} is useless. Let's look at the corpus: 
> > http://www.lojban.org/corpus/search/rei 
> > I could count only 5 (!) real usages of {rei}. So why bother? In the 
> corpus 
> > we have many more occurrencies of other words that have never been 
> properly 
> > defined and/or entered into jvs. 
>
> I have already seen the poor usage of {rei}. 
>

Where?
 

>
> > As for commands I'm sure it's an utterly important thing. 
> > So using rei for command imperatives and {reinai} for prohibitives ... 
>
> What are prohibitives? At face value it sounds like: "reinai ko broda" 
> (I forbid you to do/be broda). Is this what it means. As I guess it 
> is, it's just a command for not doing something, and thus pointless. 
> Could you enlighten me? 
>

Yes, for me it's just [COMMAND]-nai.


> > would be 
> > nice (of course {xoi} can also be used but {rei} reminds of {.ei} so 
> ...) 
> > Also the sound [r] has subliminal impression of resoluteness in many 
> > languages. 
> > Three-syllable cmavo cluster for prohibitives would be too verbose. 
> > 
> > the CLL was written 16 years ago. Such words as {xo'e}, {xo'o}, {xa'o} 
> are 
> > used many more times than some even one-syllable cmavo. 
> > So although officially {xo'e} is experimental it's de facto one of the 
> key 
> > concepts of the language. The same for the other two xV'V. 
>
> If you care for my opinion on experimentals, I'd say the concept of 
> them for a human language is impractical. It may sound good for 
> another matter, but I see human languages as living things. Once a 
> language is absorbed into an individual, it becomes alive. So a word 
> already assimilated and used is hard to unlearn as surely as a wounded 
> organism will attempt to heal. 
>

Sure. {e'i}  has already assimilated into me. That's why I don't wanna 
relearn.
As for {rei} I'm sure I'll never use it as we have {xei} (whether i'll use 
{xei} is another question :), not a very important word but still we need 
words for hexadecimal numbers).


> > For me {.e'i}=to have to 
> > {.ei} = should/ought to 
>
> So then, how a cmavo for commands would be defined? 
>
> rei attitudinal: command - ???? 
>

I suppose "command - command not to do".
The second one is called prohibitive but I can't define it as a prohibition 
as the latter has several meanings.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.


------=_Part_2479_25554437.1369568319903
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<br><br>On Sunday, May 26, 2013 3:04:07 PM UTC+4, Betsemes wrote:<blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: =
1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">Just for the record and just in case; I'=
m being inquisitive only. I
<br>just am asking questions. I consider the topic of commands, a topic of
<br>importance; so I don't want it to just die away without a proper
<br>conclusion as it seemed to be happening. I want a solution. I'm not
<br>being confrontational.
<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>u'i mi si'a do jegi na'e damba gi na'e=
 pevdamba</div><div><br></div><div>i e'u mi'o damba lo po'o fagri poi jelga=
u lo ricfoi</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;=
">
<br>Also, I paused replying to this discussion for a few days to learn the
<br>lojban words the fluents were introducing, something I'm still doing,
<br>because I'm not fluent yet. That's why I insisted on replying in my
<br>non-native English.
<br>
<br>That said, back to topic.
<br>
<br>On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 12:45 AM, la arxokuna
<br>&lt;<a href=3D"javascript:" target=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"=
E1vtdqTaBrMJ">gleki.is...@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
<br>&gt; {rei} &nbsp;may indeed lead to confusion with {re} as they are bot=
h numbers. So
<br>&gt; speaking in terms of practicism {xei} is preferable.
<br>&gt; But then {rei} is useless. Let's look at the corpus:
<br>&gt; <a href=3D"http://www.lojban.org/corpus/search/rei" target=3D"_bla=
nk">http://www.lojban.org/corpus/<wbr>search/rei</a>
<br>&gt; I could count only 5 (!) real usages of {rei}. So why bother? In t=
he corpus
<br>&gt; we have many more occurrencies of other words that have never been=
 properly
<br>&gt; defined and/or entered into jvs.
<br>
<br>I have already seen the poor usage of {rei}.
<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Where?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><blockquo=
te class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left:=
 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>&gt; As for commands I'm sure it's an utterly important thing.
<br>&gt; So using rei for command imperatives and {reinai} for prohibitives=
 ...
<br>
<br>What are prohibitives? At face value it sounds like: "reinai ko broda"
<br>(I forbid you to do/be broda). Is this what it means. As I guess it
<br>is, it's just a command for not doing something, and thus pointless.
<br>Could you enlighten me?
<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Yes, for me it's just [COMMAND]-nai.</=
div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;mar=
gin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>&gt; would be
<br>&gt; nice (of course {xoi} can also be used but {rei} reminds of {.ei} =
so ...)
<br>&gt; Also the sound [r] has subliminal impression of resoluteness in ma=
ny
<br>&gt; languages.
<br>&gt; Three-syllable cmavo cluster for prohibitives would be too verbose=
.
<br>&gt;
<br>&gt; the CLL was written 16 years ago. Such words as {xo'e}, {xo'o}, {x=
a'o} are
<br>&gt; used many more times than some even one-syllable cmavo.
<br>&gt; So although officially {xo'e} is experimental it's de facto one of=
 the key
<br>&gt; concepts of the language. The same for the other two xV'V.
<br>
<br>If you care for my opinion on experimentals, I'd say the concept of
<br>them for a human language is impractical. It may sound good for
<br>another matter, but I see human languages as living things. Once a
<br>language is absorbed into an individual, it becomes alive. So a word
<br>already assimilated and used is hard to unlearn as surely as a wounded
<br>organism will attempt to heal.
<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Sure. {e'i} &nbsp;has already assimila=
ted into me. That's why I don't wanna relearn.</div><div>As for {rei} I'm s=
ure I'll never use it as we have {xei} (whether i'll use {xei} is another q=
uestion :), not a very important word but still we need words for hexadecim=
al numbers).</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex=
;">
<br>&gt; For me {.e'i}=3Dto have to
<br>&gt; {.ei} =3D should/ought to
<br>
<br>So then, how a cmavo for commands would be defined?
<br>
<br>rei attitudinal: command - ????
<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I suppose "command - command not to do=
".</div><div>The second one is called prohibitive but I can't define it as =
a prohibition as the latter has several meanings.</div>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;lojban&quot; group.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.<br />
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.<br />
Visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3De=
n">http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den</a>.<br />
For more options, visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out=
">https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out</a>.<br />
&nbsp;<br />
&nbsp;<br />

------=_Part_2479_25554437.1369568319903--