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Message-ID: <1369595874.30548.YahooMailNeo@web184404.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 26 May 2013 12:17:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] Robin retry: commands.
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One of the fatal consequences of shifting negation from prenex to wherever =
the Hell you want to put i has been that we often have no idea what is bein=
g negated.=A0 That seems to be the case with UInai.=A0 Alas, both obvious p=
ossibilities have clear cases of being what is needed and clear cases of wh=
at is just nonsensical, and a vast majority mof cases where either would wo=
rk and be useful but there is no good argument for one rather than the othe=
r.=A0 The tendency seems to be to treat them all alike and hide the ridicul=
ous cases as best you can, but, since matters started off with some going o=
ne way and some the other, it is not clear which way to treat them all.=A0 =
(Of course, it is not clear that all UI need the possibility of a negation =
around, but that is too radical a notion to get much traction.)


________________________________
 From: la arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com=20
Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2013 9:51 AM
Subject: Re: [lojban] Robin retry: commands.
=20


On Sunday, May 26, 2013 6:28:03 PM UTC+4, Betsemes wrote:
On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 9:30 AM, la arxokuna <gleki.is...@gmail.com> wrote:=
=20
>> In case of doubts we should always =A0change back to {sei broda}.=20
>>=20
>> {*rei=3Dsei minde}=20
>>=20
>> I hope someone can make the full list of translations.=20
>>=20
>> Because sometimes {nai} acts like {to'e}, sometimes like {na'ei}.=20
>
>Okay, I'll make my non-linguistic try.=20
>
>{rei =3D sei minde}=20
>{reinai =3D sei to'e minde}=20
>
>Now what is an antonym of command? Here: http://thesaurus.com/browse/comma=
nd=20
>we it says:=20
>
>Main Entry:=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0command =A0[kuh-mand, -mahnd] =A0Show I=
PA=20
>Part of Speech:=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0noun=20
>...=20
>Antonyms:=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 contradiction, countermand, opposition, =
recall, reversal, revocation=20
>
>So based on this, I may say {to'e minde} is "countermand".=20
>
>So maybe:=20
>rei: command - obedience optional - countermand

Now much better.
As for other UInai I'm sutre even the authors didn't understand what they c=
ould mean.
I hope I'm mistaken.


>
>Thoughts? Comments?=20
>
>mu'o mi'e betsemes=20
>
--=20
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<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:ti=
mes new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt">One of the fatal cons=
equences of shifting negation from prenex to wherever the Hell you want to =
put i has been that we often have no idea what is being negated.&nbsp; That=
 seems to be the case with UInai.&nbsp; Alas, both obvious possibilities ha=
ve clear cases of being what is needed and clear cases of what is just nons=
ensical, and a vast majority mof cases where either would work and be usefu=
l but there is no good argument for one rather than the other.&nbsp; The te=
ndency seems to be to treat them all alike and hide the ridiculous cases as=
 best you can, but, since matters started off with some going one way and s=
ome the other, it is not clear which way to treat them all.&nbsp; (Of cours=
e, it is not clear that all UI need the possibility of a negation around, b=
ut that is too radical a notion to get much
 traction.)<br><div><span><br></span></div><div><br></div>  <div style=3D"f=
ont-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <di=
v style=3D"font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size:=
 12pt;"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <hr size=3D"1">  <font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"=
> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> la arxokuna &lt;gle=
ki.is.my.name@gmail.com&gt;<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">To:</=
span></b> lojban@googlegroups.com <br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;=
">Sent:</span></b> Sunday, May 26, 2013 9:51 AM<br> <b><span style=3D"font-=
weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [lojban] Robin retry: commands.<br> =
</font> </div> <div class=3D"y_msg_container"><br>
<div id=3D"yiv285313661"><br><br>On Sunday, May 26, 2013 6:28:03 PM UTC+4, =
Betsemes wrote:<blockquote class=3D"yiv285313661gmail_quote" style=3D"margi=
n:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">On Sun,=
 May 26, 2013 at 9:30 AM, la arxokuna &lt;<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow">gle=
ki.is...@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
<br>&gt; In case of doubts we should always &nbsp;change back to {sei broda=
}.
<br>&gt;
<br>&gt; {*rei=3Dsei minde}
<br>&gt;
<br>&gt; I hope someone can make the full list of translations.
<br>&gt;
<br>&gt; Because sometimes {nai} acts like {to'e}, sometimes like {na'ei}.
<br>
<br>Okay, I'll make my non-linguistic try.
<br>
<br>{rei =3D sei minde}
<br>{reinai =3D sei to'e minde}
<br>
<br>Now what is an antonym of command? Here: http://thesaurus.com/browse/co=
mmand
<br>we it says:
<br>
<br>Main Entry:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;command &nbs=
p;[kuh-mand, -mahnd] &nbsp;Show IPA
<br>Part of Speech:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;noun
<br>...
<br>Antonyms:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; contradiction=
, countermand, opposition, recall, reversal, revocation
<br>
<br>So based on this, I may say {to'e minde} is "countermand".
<br>
<br>So maybe:
<br>rei: command - obedience optional - countermand</blockquote><div><br></=
div><div>Now much better.</div><div>As for other UInai I'm sutre even the a=
uthors didn't understand what they could mean.</div><div>I hope I'm mistake=
n.</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"yiv285313661gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;=
">
<br>
<br>Thoughts? Comments?
<br>
<br>mu'o mi'e betsemes
<br></blockquote>


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ut</a>.<br>
&nbsp;<br>
&nbsp;<br>
</div><br><br></div> </div> </div>  </div></body></html>

<p></p>

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