Received: from mail-we0-f192.google.com ([74.125.82.192]:60415) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1UhPqP-0008SC-66 for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Tue, 28 May 2013 12:46:10 -0700 Received: by mail-we0-f192.google.com with SMTP id q54sf1385623wes.9 for ; Tue, 28 May 2013 12:45:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:x-authenticated:x-provags-id:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :x-y-gmx-trusted:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=qPFyfsFRuWdZEVSFJFFHd8pNeRQ8j3sPy1iPRAK640s=; b=jVfChCqyfwll5T7vQLxSlr2Tue9WaOJ7xrRUPAY2olozMxwkD2yQKwkjIBCiLCdTTm hNXRDSWO04b5O41b7tZH7xvNWVSHBJhjzfzHLfqHUEhLP77nGoDGVFyegvP1bpPxSQXO RIW43g9ejsdANrNlHoMKOLlh91O7cQu1rbhwJyq6iRKAms++tmGGfjoag00VFe+qgUc7 O6oK4OpUS1BKPNYE5scwnYvpiNDcmo49XJAaz/sADqXVuHZmkGjexd0gUIVbtdFzsznY UnIL56d6g9ou/2ovSss72nn5EcM+GyDK/8yiGSVkZT8fHkMKNz5KHWSUtDA8BTiTG1AH P8aA== X-Received: by 10.180.187.51 with SMTP id fp19mr1136215wic.1.1369770357326; Tue, 28 May 2013 12:45:57 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.180.36.166 with SMTP id r6ls1237745wij.0.canary; Tue, 28 May 2013 12:45:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.15.10.9 with SMTP id f9mr39270726eet.3.1369770356833; Tue, 28 May 2013 12:45:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net. [212.227.17.21]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id o5si8288040eew.0.2013.05.28.12.45.56 for ; Tue, 28 May 2013 12:45:56 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of seladwa@gmx.de designates 212.227.17.21 as permitted sender) client-ip=212.227.17.21; Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net ([10.1.76.4]) by mrigmx.server.lan (mrigmx002) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0Lewz3-1U5NaV2lnr-00qm2p for ; Tue, 28 May 2013 21:45:56 +0200 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 28 May 2013 19:45:56 -0000 Received: from p5DDC5113.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (EHLO [192.168.2.100]) [93.220.81.19] by mail.gmx.net (mp004) with SMTP; 28 May 2013 21:45:56 +0200 X-Authenticated: #54293076 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX19Jke594wZJMURYoVHZjK3Ny0DJTmsPm5h75rJJ3B N6qEUDIwJ2RtKd Message-ID: <51A50971.50000@gmx.de> Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 21:45:53 +0200 From: selpa'i User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130509 Thunderbird/17.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] cmevla as a class of brivla References: <51A379EF.3020803@gmx.de> <51A38E6B.7080107@gmx.de> <51A4A920.3090104@gmx.de> <1369749610.3062.YahooMailNeo@web184401.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-Original-Sender: seladwa@gmx.de X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of seladwa@gmx.de designates 212.227.17.21 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=seladwa@gmx.de Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / la .remos. cu cusku di'e > While I'd be in favor of the Merge, last time someone objected that it > would break some as simple as {la lojban mo}. But what's so great about that sentence, and does it outweigh the possible benefits? > It would probably break a lot of the existing text. I would still like > to see it accepted but it seems a major change and we should be prepared > to review and change the documents or we'll get major confusion (much > greater than xorlo). It is important to note that some authors have been writing their texts in such a way that, if read with cmevla as brivla, the text does not parse differently. Simply said, this means always using {cu} between a cmevla and the following selbri. xorxes does this (probably not by accident), and I do, too. Our current Lojban corpus contains 150,000 (rounded up) words (excluding IRC). If we take all of xorxes' major texts and add them together, we get Alice 33,000 + The Little Prince 17,000 + Metamorphosis 26,000 = 76,000 words. + my ~50,000 words we arrive at 126,000 words, which constitute 84% of the entire corpus, and which don't need any changes if the Merge goes through. I didn't have time to count all the smaller texts and check what would happen to them, but chances are there are a few more that wouldn't be affected. On top of that, all the future additions would already incorporate the change, and would quickly outnumber the old texts. All this aside, however, I don't think it would be such a problem even if it affected a large fraction of the corpus and if nobody went ahead and updated them. Why? Because if you know that a text is old (that is, from pre-Merge times), you can simply read it with the old rules in mind. It's not difficult to understand outdated material as long as you are aware that the rules were different back then. mu'o mi'e la selpa'i -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.