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Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 09:56:48 -0400
Message-ID: <CA+gZtgKXPBscXey6hoyyX6CjVvcJAC0txzV3G2Kx1dRMrE8oDw@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] cmevla as a class of brivla
From: Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com>
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On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 7:19 AM, tijlan <jbotijlan@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 28 May 2013 13:54, selpa'i <seladwa@gmx.de> wrote:
> Having family names as independent cmevla rather than an inalienable part
> of a specific name, can be productive, as in the "Koch brothers", {kok
> bruna}, "Koch-type-of brothers". "David Koch" could then be {kok deivid},
> "Koch-type-of David". I think it would make sense if {kok} in the two tanru
> referred generically to the same family rather than brothers on one hand
> and an individual on the other hand, at least to the extent that it *is* a
> family name. In the "Mario brothers" and the "Doobie Brothers", "Mario" and
> "Doobie" aren't a family name, but they can still be translated as a seltau
> modifying {bruna}.
>
>
> mu'o
>
My suggestion here is to let {la} behave the way that the local culture has
it behave, whereas {lo} behaves according to tanru shape. For example I
would say {lo kok bruna} for "The Koch brothers", {la deivid kok} for
"David Koch" among most Westerners, and {la kok deivid} for "David Koch"
among Eastern cultures. This also maintains some usefulness of {la} per se,
rather than it being "the same as {lo} but achieving its goal it in a
different way".

mi'e la latro'a mu'o

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<div dir=3D"ltr">On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 7:19 AM, tijlan <span dir=3D"ltr">=
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jbotijlan@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jbotijlan@gmai=
l.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gma=
il_quote">
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div class=3D"im">On 2=
8 May 2013 13:54, selpa&#39;i &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:seladwa@gmx.de" target=
=3D"_blank">seladwa@gmx.de</a>&gt; wrote:</div>
</div><div>Having family names as independent cmevla rather than an inalien=
able part of a specific name, can be productive, as in the &quot;Koch broth=
ers&quot;, {kok bruna}, &quot;Koch-type-of brothers&quot;. &quot;David Koch=
&quot; could then be {kok deivid}, &quot;Koch-type-of David&quot;. I think =
it would make sense if {kok} in the two tanru referred generically to the s=
ame family rather than brothers on one hand and an individual on the other =
hand, at least to the extent that it *is* a family name. In the &quot;Mario=
 brothers&quot; and the &quot;Doobie Brothers&quot;, &quot;Mario&quot; and =
&quot;Doobie&quot; aren&#39;t a family name, but they can still be translat=
ed as a seltau modifying {bruna}.<br>

</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>mu&#39;o<br></div></div></blockquo=
te><div style>My suggestion here is to let {la} behave the way that the loc=
al culture has it behave, whereas {lo} behaves according to tanru shape. Fo=
r example I would say {lo kok bruna} for &quot;The Koch brothers&quot;, {la=
 deivid kok} for &quot;David Koch&quot; among most Westerners, and {la kok =
deivid} for &quot;David Koch&quot; among Eastern cultures. This also mainta=
ins some usefulness of {la} per se, rather than it being &quot;the same as =
{lo} but achieving its goal it in a different way&quot;.</div>
<div style><br></div><div style>mi&#39;e la latro&#39;a mu&#39;o</div></div=
><br></div></div>

<p></p>

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