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Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 05:59:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] cmevla as a class of brivla
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Summary?:=A0 cmevla and brivla are separate morphological classes (ends in =
a consonant/ doesn't, for short).=A0=20
brivla can occur anywhere cmevla can occur.=A0=20
as of now, cmevla alone cannot occur in=A0 primary brivla positions (selbri=
, seltau, tertau).
as a practical matter, it would be useful to allow cmevla to occur at least=
 in tanru, since there are many name+predicate combinations in science, etc=
.=20
but most of these are names, again, not predicates, and so already allowed.

merging the two classes syntactically would mean one less syntactic class, =
but not obviously simplify the language otherwise.


________________________________
 From: selpa'i <seladwa@gmx.de>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com=20
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 7:37 AM
Subject: Re: [lojban] cmevla as a class of brivla
=20

la .betsemes. cu cusku di'e
> Under the merge;
> {lo tatoebas jufra} may be written as {lo jufra pe la tatoebas}.
> {lo karce pe la betsemes} could be written {lo betsemes karce}
>=20
> But what about {lo karce pe la selpa'i}?
> {lo selpa'i karce}? This would mean something totally different,
> "beloved car", not Selpa'i's car.
>=20
> Of course, all of them may be rewritten as
> lo la tatoebas ku jufra
> lo la betsemes ku karce
> lo la selpa'i ku karce

I think it's less strange if you consider the conversion formula to be:

lo broda brode ~=3D lo brode pe lo broda

Now you can plug in any broda you want, one possible candidate being {.tato=
'ebas.}, so that {lo jufra pe *lo* .tato'ebas.}. That way there is no diffe=
rence between a cmevla- and a brivla-seltau. There only seems to be one bec=
ause cmevla are always names, so you don't need the extra step of adding {m=
e la} (because this is already part of the cmevla's definition).

mu'o mi'e la selpa'i

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<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:ti=
mes new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt">Summary?:&nbsp; cmevl=
a and brivla are separate morphological classes (ends in a consonant/ doesn=
't, for short).&nbsp; <br>brivla can occur anywhere cmevla can occur.&nbsp;=
 <br>as of now, cmevla alone cannot occur in&nbsp; primary brivla positions=
 (selbri, seltau, tertau).<br>as a practical matter, it would be useful to =
allow cmevla to occur at least in tanru, since there are many name+predicat=
e combinations in science, etc. <br>but most of these are names, again, not=
 predicates, and so already allowed.<br><div><span>merging the two classes =
syntactically would mean one less syntactic class, but not obviously simpli=
fy the language otherwise.<br></span></div><div><br></div>  <div style=3D"f=
ont-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <di=
v style=3D"font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif;
 font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <hr size=3D"1">  <font face=3D"Arial"=
 size=3D"2"> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> selpa'i =
&lt;seladwa@gmx.de&gt;<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">To:</span>=
</b> lojban@googlegroups.com <br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Sen=
t:</span></b> Thursday, May 30, 2013 7:37 AM<br> <b><span style=3D"font-wei=
ght: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [lojban] cmevla as a class of brivla<br=
> </font> </div> <div class=3D"y_msg_container"><br>
la .betsemes. cu cusku di'e<br>&gt; Under the merge;<br>&gt; {lo tatoebas j=
ufra} may be written as {lo jufra pe la tatoebas}.<br>&gt; {lo karce pe la =
betsemes} could be written {lo betsemes karce}<br>&gt; <br>&gt; But what ab=
out {lo karce pe la selpa'i}?<br>&gt; {lo selpa'i karce}? This would mean s=
omething totally different,<br>&gt; "beloved car", not Selpa'i's car.<br>&g=
t; <br>&gt; Of course, all of them may be rewritten as<br>&gt; lo la tatoeb=
as ku jufra<br>&gt; lo la betsemes ku karce<br>&gt; lo la selpa'i ku karce<=
br><br>I think it's less strange if you consider the conversion formula to =
be:<br><br>lo broda brode ~=3D lo brode pe lo broda<br><br>Now you can plug=
 in any broda you want, one possible candidate being {.tato'ebas.}, so that=
 {lo jufra pe *lo* .tato'ebas.}. That way there is no difference between a =
cmevla- and a brivla-seltau. There only seems to be one because cmevla are =
always names, so you don't need the extra step of adding {me la}
 (because this is already part of the cmevla's definition).<br><br>mu'o mi'=
e la selpa'i<br><br>-- You received this message because you are subscribed=
 to the Google Groups "lojban" group.<br>To unsubscribe from this group and=
 stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+<a ymailto=3D"mailt=
o:unsubscribe@googlegroups.com" href=3D"mailto:unsubscribe@googlegroups.com=
">unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>To post to this group, send email to=
 <a ymailto=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com" href=3D"mailto:lojban@google=
groups.com">lojban@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>Visit this group at http://grou=
ps.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.<br>For more options, visit <a href=3D"h=
ttps://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out" target=3D"_blank">https://groups.g=
oogle.com/groups/opt_out</a>.<br><br><br><br><br></div> </div> </div>  </di=
v></body></html>

<p></p>

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