Received: from mail-ea0-f191.google.com ([209.85.215.191]:51016) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1UiUxp-0003o5-Et for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Fri, 31 May 2013 12:26:27 -0700 Received: by mail-ea0-f191.google.com with SMTP id a11sf337178eae.8 for ; Fri, 31 May 2013 12:26:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=pqiU+ZfwJUZdfArCtPMqYTGeW9XeN0zxyFK7iIXnv/c=; b=l0ZQKiRIO4VtwWPlbEXnsoPBCxTmAscgIFa+rC6EnlnCp/PjCQ/oE68PAVCeH5HS1z UL6qvU1i1r6UsekGp+lCDm+bpLPKDLDdph+ucLJop5zjPjHzPu7n8adBYELBvYp5GY6m Xu9aIm9xO8mMMs522gITzfF1SQ4WIUQZHu2v+2Q0yThTgmTnbUfX3jpod7SUcWndwqTd jvqIrwdUFhfYNCOB82Hk/mXpyV7Ny3P55dy2uphZcjFouEuhDcGfO8ZYQQsAydoV0rpa 4JWxQNWDQ4fXa5yjOFQ4Go0c6eAD7z7GueLGIWW5dVNatE4L72EiB29TcqN33xMeZXqL 36bA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-beenthere:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=pqiU+ZfwJUZdfArCtPMqYTGeW9XeN0zxyFK7iIXnv/c=; b=1DMq6P7qHGgy88d+7Z7EUKTQYBUWt2Lmu3DLOwvABiR0ze7EN4gXdj35Mdjxhkfrg1 DNfcysSXTBCylRhG1VFug1Q1R1c3vXiYcpWd8DceazWNSvn0g3/dvyBSAcbDxohhS4Ei cSE30leCLkHfrhYHxgvdfuHYksTAhpLNVXpQe3Z5gJvdppDI0Go9n6lmNpUNTjkXE10B Xxl1YsI+5D0/Zv7fHMiIZ2D2y7QGA+0HsM+3UyisCZ1yYZdrv6pHYfmxkcGYjSdyZR/G C69Jm1bguCMdsJ3knngTPc+hWf6bpGp3jTIdNtFhx5axzQVcqOFsSkf1vxypRtMm1NKY JXxw== X-Received: by 10.180.75.77 with SMTP id a13mr481090wiw.13.1370028365945; Fri, 31 May 2013 12:26:05 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.180.73.242 with SMTP id o18ls358835wiv.41.gmail; Fri, 31 May 2013 12:26:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.204.70.76 with SMTP id c12mr1454444bkj.5.1370028365375; Fri, 31 May 2013 12:26:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-la0-x235.google.com (mail-la0-x235.google.com [2a00:1450:4010:c03::235]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id i9si3820934bki.2.2013.05.31.12.26.05 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 31 May 2013 12:26:05 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4010:c03::235 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:4010:c03::235; Received: by mail-la0-f53.google.com with SMTP id ea20so1735298lab.12 for ; Fri, 31 May 2013 12:26:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.28.130 with SMTP id b2mr6450690lah.32.1370028364979; Fri, 31 May 2013 12:26:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.1.166 with HTTP; Fri, 31 May 2013 12:26:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <51A8F51D.4060502@lojban.org> References: <51A6685C.3010505@lojban.org> <2718750.fulPsy5vnL@caracal> <51A86EC7.5010800@lojban.org> <51A8F51D.4060502@lojban.org> Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 13:26:04 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] cmevla as a class of brivla From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4010:c03::235 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0160b6bc06e47c04de08966e X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --089e0160b6bc06e47c04de08966e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 1:08 PM, Robert LeChevalier wrot= e: > Jonathan Jones wrote: > >> On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 3:35 AM, Robert LeChevalier > > wrote: >> >> >> Personally, the thing that probably keeps most people from learning >> Lojban is the same thing that keeps them from learning nay other >> language, natural or artificial. That is vocabulary. Adults need a >> couple thousand words of vocabulary in order to comfortably talk >> about the things that they want to talk about, or maybe a lot more, >> and learning a couple of thousand words is HARD for most people. No >> simplification of grammar is going to eliminate that problem. >> >> lojbab >> >> >> That is precisely my difficulties with Lojban. The grammar is easy as = =F0, >> but I'm still learning the actual vocab. I'll admit to being somewhat >> lazy on the learning of it, but I'd say at this point I know ~1/4 of the >> gismu and cmavo, a smattering of non-jvajvo lujvo, maybe a couple >> fu'ivla, and a very few of the experimental words like zo'oi. >> > > That was the point of the original LogFlash. One of the few things that > JCB did that was actually scientific was to test flashcard algorithms, an= d > the original LogFlash encoded what he found to be the optimal one. We > eventually added some flexibility, but people turned away from the tested > algorithm in favor of all sorts of flashcard approaches. > > But the original one really worked. 25 years on with little regular usag= e > for the last dozen years, and I still recall most of the gismu, having > drilled them up to >95% in less than 2 months. (I never completed the > cmavo and rafsi to such a high degree, but the ones that I did learn I > didn't forget very quickly.) > > Of course it is now a problem of converting the Turbo Pascal Dos program > into something more portable. (Eric Raymond tried to convert the program > to portable C, but it never worked well.) I've never been able to get that thing to work, actually. So right now I'm using the Memrise.com lesson I made for the gismu, and another memrise one someone else made for the cmavo. > > > lojbab > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@**googlegroups.com > . > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/**group/lojban?hl=3Den > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/**groups/opt_out > . > > > --=20 mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --089e0160b6bc06e47c04de08966e Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 1:08 PM, Robert = LeChevalier <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote:
Jonathan Jones wrote:
On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 3:35 AM, Robert LeChevalier <lojbab@lojban.org
<mailto:lojbab@lo= jban.org>> wrote:

=A0 =A0 <snip>
=A0 =A0 Personally, the thing that probably keeps most people from learning=
=A0 =A0 Lojban is the same thing that keeps them from learning nay other =A0 =A0 language, natural or artificial. =A0That is vocabulary. =A0Adults n= eed a
=A0 =A0 couple thousand words of vocabulary in order to comfortably talk =A0 =A0 about the things that they want to talk about, or maybe a lot more,=
=A0 =A0 and learning a couple of thousand words is HARD for most people. = =A0No
=A0 =A0 simplification of grammar is going to eliminate that problem.

=A0 =A0 lojbab


That is precisely my difficulties with Lojban. The grammar is easy as =F0,<= br> but I'm still learning the actual vocab. I'll admit to being somewh= at
lazy on the learning of it, but I'd say at this point I know ~1/4 of th= e
gismu and cmavo, a smattering of non-jvajvo lujvo, maybe a couple
fu'ivla, and a very few of the experimental words like zo'oi.

That was the point of the original LogFlash. =A0One of the few things that = JCB did that was actually scientific was to test flashcard algorithms, and = the original LogFlash encoded what he found to be the optimal one. We event= ually added some flexibility, but people turned away from the tested algori= thm in favor of all sorts of flashcard approaches.

But the original one really worked. =A025 years on with little regular usag= e for the last dozen years, and I still recall most of the gismu, having dr= illed them up to >95% in less than 2 months. =A0(I never completed the c= mavo and rafsi to such a high degree, but the ones that I did learn I didn&= #39;t forget very quickly.)

Of course it is now a problem of converting the Turbo Pascal Dos program in= to something more portable. =A0(Eric Raymond tried to convert the program t= o portable C, but it never worked well.)

I've neve= r been able to get that thing to work, actually. So right now I'm using= the Memrise.com lesson I made for the gismu, and another memrise one someo= ne else made for the cmavo.
=A0


lojbab

--
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Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
For more options, visit
https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.




--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
 
 
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