Received: from mail-vb0-f59.google.com ([209.85.212.59]:51369) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1UiVD3-0003wh-EI for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Fri, 31 May 2013 12:42:10 -0700 Received: by mail-vb0-f59.google.com with SMTP id p14sf519748vbm.14 for ; Fri, 31 May 2013 12:41:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=oH/ZtT5QG3rJmmCStxTLZtWAhtJ7z7KpWOIhfhsZVjM=; b=DSyUh1gaNAowE6XGneZU87aObbuc5h7Env6FzZidGqSwhGzHUunmdDS52kLq30UVON qkt+ljz/FbDw2kT7e6T9+68PkerHjZtMNxeX4reOKZmu7gtAsc8RyE3bK1LShaCd30T1 XYxLSClRoZ26iGKIYNka27wrzGqH91uOZo0hFMrIsM+Bf0YSh+NT4TwrVz0mT//ANsxN OMn3Jh7OZyWkMkJ3MS3Yopcc4bRFAmxklixrswLEZ1CSUWgwxFBFoR+7GxtyP48ov+Mh zbro3CT2OR5XCiGlx/RJi/eUeSimrKth4e2qvwJmvlSHaSP5XyAhkutTBewyTrj3vVpl gNWw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-beenthere:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=oH/ZtT5QG3rJmmCStxTLZtWAhtJ7z7KpWOIhfhsZVjM=; b=XJc/J7T17fTDrqGPbR1Hq8iFCOqzeKan76u6eI842sMMXC4r0VdgZBO6uQa45utaq5 WY79ilUxtCEiiwOgkAoYe/mpFbgYu3eTPCaXCTZuUCf0H+1IOtwAgt9oZtRuNOobYBR/ SQQbNGwU+p5pV10wtxLByjsYdc5EAE5DY7QjA7LQ1N1E4/a1qPChcz5GD/Hv1EiKTwli 8mf+UypK1C87Gj0oe9xB7ZQnop/d4/MD7quBH6TL5QC2UZsLg6HqWz28MDExCSfak7m0 XrLY5b+Dy420ma+31jIHTqwTihL+oA1cyFCBSEVBffjWA+M1rplGIx0fSTsdAvqPbkjD hecA== X-Received: by 10.49.41.67 with SMTP id d3mr1109331qel.17.1370029310566; Fri, 31 May 2013 12:41:50 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.49.41.7 with SMTP id b7ls1076609qel.12.gmail; Fri, 31 May 2013 12:41:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.49.107.234 with SMTP id hf10mr1129998qeb.21.1370029309769; Fri, 31 May 2013 12:41:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 12:41:49 -0700 (PDT) From: la arxokuna To: lojban@googlegroups.com Message-Id: <5b0f84ad-7e30-42d7-8b9c-b6008296cf44@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: References: <51A6685C.3010505@lojban.org> <2718750.fulPsy5vnL@caracal> <51A86EC7.5010800@lojban.org> <51A8F51D.4060502@lojban.org> Subject: Re: [lojban] cmevla as a class of brivla MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1146_20298896.1370029309447" X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / ------=_Part_1146_20298896.1370029309447 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Friday, May 31, 2013 11:26:04 PM UTC+4, aionys wrote: > > > > On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 1:08 PM, Robert LeChevalier > > wrote: > >> Jonathan Jones wrote: >> >>> On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 3:35 AM, Robert LeChevalier >>> >> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Personally, the thing that probably keeps most people from learning >>> Lojban is the same thing that keeps them from learning nay other >>> language, natural or artificial. That is vocabulary. Adults need = a >>> couple thousand words of vocabulary in order to comfortably talk >>> about the things that they want to talk about, or maybe a lot more, >>> and learning a couple of thousand words is HARD for most people. N= o >>> simplification of grammar is going to eliminate that problem. >>> >>> lojbab >>> >>> >>> That is precisely my difficulties with Lojban. The grammar is easy as = =F0, >>> but I'm still learning the actual vocab. I'll admit to being somewhat >>> lazy on the learning of it, but I'd say at this point I know ~1/4 of th= e >>> gismu and cmavo, a smattering of non-jvajvo lujvo, maybe a couple >>> fu'ivla, and a very few of the experimental words like zo'oi. >>> >> >> That was the point of the original LogFlash. One of the few things that= =20 >> JCB did that was actually scientific was to test flashcard algorithms, a= nd=20 >> the original LogFlash encoded what he found to be the optimal one. We=20 >> eventually added some flexibility, but people turned away from the teste= d=20 >> algorithm in favor of all sorts of flashcard approaches. >> >> But the original one really worked. 25 years on with little regular=20 >> usage for the last dozen years, and I still recall most of the gismu,=20 >> having drilled them up to >95% in less than 2 months. (I never complete= d=20 >> the cmavo and rafsi to such a high degree, but the ones that I did learn= I=20 >> didn't forget very quickly.) >> >> Of course it is now a problem of converting the Turbo Pascal Dos program= =20 >> into something more portable. (Eric Raymond tried to convert the progra= m=20 >> to portable C, but it never worked well.) > > > I've never been able to get that thing to work, actually. So right now I'= m=20 > using the Memrise.com lesson I made for the gismu, and another memrise on= e=20 > someone else made for the cmavo. > btw Memrise android app announced a week ago. =20 > =20 > >> >> >> lojbab >> >> --=20 >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s=20 >> "lojban" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send a= n=20 >> email to lojban+un...@**googlegroups.com . >> To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com >> . >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/**group/lojban?hl=3Den >> . >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/**groups/opt_out >> . >> >> >> > > > --=20 > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. ------=_Part_1146_20298896.1370029309447 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Friday, May 31, 2013 11:26:04 PM UTC+4, aionys wrote:

On Fri= , May 31, 2013 at 1:08 PM, Robert LeChevalier <l= oj...@lojban.org> wrote:
Jonathan Jones wrote:
On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 3:35 AM, Robert LeChevalier <loj...@lojban= .org
<mailto:loj...@lojban.org>> wrote:

    <snip>
    Personally, the thing that probably keeps most people from le= arning
    Lojban is the same thing that keeps them from learning nay ot= her
    language, natural or artificial.  That is vocabulary. &n= bsp;Adults need a
    couple thousand words of vocabulary in order to comfortably t= alk
    about the things that they want to talk about, or maybe a lot= more,
    and learning a couple of thousand words is HARD for most peop= le.  No
    simplification of grammar is going to eliminate that problem.=

    lojbab


That is precisely my difficulties with Lojban. The grammar is easy as =F0,<= br> but I'm still learning the actual vocab. I'll admit to being somewhat
lazy on the learning of it, but I'd say at this point I know ~1/4 of the gismu and cmavo, a smattering of non-jvajvo lujvo, maybe a couple
fu'ivla, and a very few of the experimental words like zo'oi.

That was the point of the original LogFlash.  One of the few things th= at JCB did that was actually scientific was to test flashcard algorithms, a= nd the original LogFlash encoded what he found to be the optimal one. We ev= entually added some flexibility, but people turned away from the tested alg= orithm in favor of all sorts of flashcard approaches.

But the original one really worked.  25 years on with little regular u= sage for the last dozen years, and I still recall most of the gismu, having= drilled them up to >95% in less than 2 months.  (I never completed= the cmavo and rafsi to such a high degree, but the ones that I did learn I= didn't forget very quickly.)

Of course it is now a problem of converting the Turbo Pascal Dos program in= to something more portable.  (Eric Raymond tried to convert the progra= m to portable C, but it never worked well.)

I've never= been able to get that thing to work, actually. So right now I'm using the = Memrise.com lesson I made for the gismu, and another memrise one someone el= se made for the cmavo.


=
btw Memrise android app announced a week ago.
 
 


lojbab

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl= =3Den.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.





--
mu'o mi'e .= aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu= do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
 
 
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