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Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2013 14:33:38 -0300
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Subject: Re: [lojban] A Short Story
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= <jjllambias@gmail.com>
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On Sat, Jun 1, 2013 at 11:03 AM, selpa'i <seladwa@gmx.de> wrote:


> I'd gloss kansa as "mitmachen"/"begleiten" in German, which mean "to
> accompany, to go along with". And {kansi'u} would still give us a symmetric
> {kansa}.
>

OK, let's assume that there is an asymmetry, analogous to one we might
posit between the x2 and x3 of sumji. lo kansi'u is like lo sumji, lo kansa
is like lo te sumji and lo se kansa is like lo se sumji. x2 and x3 of jmina
also seem to have this asymmetry, although "jmina" is given two different
definitions, one in which x2 is added to x3 and the other in which x2 is
augmented by x3. "mi jmina lo silna lo cidja" or "mi jmina lo cidja lo
silna"?

By the above logic, {nonkansa} would mean "accompanying no one", "going
> along with no one", somewhat in the sense of "withholding support". I'm not
> sure what a concrete usage example could be though, but it feels like there
> should be a use for it. (if not, then the sel- could be scrapped from the
> lujvo). Maybe:
>
> da'i mi kansa no da lo nu/ka klama lo kensa
> "I wouldn't accompany anyone to outer space."


You choose to read it as "I wouldn't accompany anyone in *their* journey to
outer space", but couldn't it also just as well be read as "I wouldn't be
accompanying anyone in *my* journey to outer space"?

Even if there is an asymmetry in kansa, I think both "nonselkansa" and
"nonkansa" should still mean "alone". In one case, alone by virtue of not
being joined by anyone else, in the other case by virtue of not joining
anyone else. If zero is added to a quantity or if that quantity is added to
zero, the result is still the same, even if it is reached by different
processes.

The full definition in any case requires more that "be no da":

nonkansa: ko'a kansa no da ko'e .ije ko'a ckaji ko'e
nonselkansa: ko'a se kansa no da ko'e .ije ko'a ckaji ko'e

The second part is necessary because otherwise all we have is a negation
but no affirmation that ko'a does do something alone.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
On Sat, Jun 1, 2013 at 11:03 AM, selpa&#39;i <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:seladwa@gmx.de" target=3D"_blank">seladwa@gmx.de</a>&gt;</span> =
wrote:<div>

=A0<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-=
style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
I&#39;d gloss kansa as &quot;mitmachen&quot;/&quot;begleiten&quot; in Germa=
n, which mean &quot;to accompany, to go along with&quot;. And {kansi&#39;u}=
 would still give us a symmetric {kansa}.<br></blockquote><div><br></div>

<div>OK, let&#39;s assume that there is an asymmetry, analogous to one we m=
ight posit between the x2 and x3 of sumji. lo kansi&#39;u is like lo sumji,=
 lo kansa is like lo te sumji and lo se kansa is like lo se sumji. x2 and x=
3 of jmina also seem to have this asymmetry, although &quot;jmina&quot; is =
given two different definitions, one in which x2 is added to x3 and the oth=
er in which x2 is augmented by x3. &quot;mi jmina lo silna lo cidja&quot; o=
r &quot;mi jmina lo cidja lo silna&quot;?=A0</div>
<div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0p=
x 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-lef=
t-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
By the above logic, {nonkansa} would mean &quot;accompanying no one&quot;, =
&quot;going along with no one&quot;, somewhat in the sense of &quot;withhol=
ding support&quot;. I&#39;m not sure what a concrete usage example could be=
 though, but it feels like there should be a use for it. (if not, then the =
sel- could be scrapped from the lujvo). Maybe:<br>


<br>
da&#39;i mi kansa no da lo nu/ka klama lo kensa<br>
&quot;I wouldn&#39;t accompany anyone to outer space.&quot;</blockquote><di=
v><br></div><div style>You choose to read it as &quot;I wouldn&#39;t accomp=
any anyone in *their* journey to outer space&quot;, but couldn&#39;t it als=
o just as well be read as &quot;I wouldn&#39;t be accompanying anyone in *m=
y* journey to outer space&quot;?=A0</div>
<div style><br></div><div style>Even if there is an asymmetry in kansa, I t=
hink both &quot;nonselkansa&quot; and &quot;nonkansa&quot; should still mea=
n &quot;alone&quot;. In one case, alone by virtue of not being joined by an=
yone else, in the other case by virtue of not joining anyone else. If zero =
is added to a quantity or if that quantity is added to zero, the result is =
still the same, even if it is reached by different processes.=A0</div>
<div style><br></div><div style>The full definition in any case requires mo=
re that &quot;be no da&quot;:</div><div style><br></div><div style>nonkansa=
: ko&#39;a kansa no da ko&#39;e .ije ko&#39;a ckaji ko&#39;e</div><div styl=
e>
nonselkansa: ko&#39;a se kansa no da ko&#39;e .ije ko&#39;a ckaji ko&#39;e<=
/div><div style><br></div><div style>The second part is necessary because o=
therwise all we have is a negation but no affirmation that ko&#39;a does do=
 something alone.=A0</div>
<div style><br></div><div style>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e xorxes</div><div style><b=
r></div></div></div></div>

<p></p>

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