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Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2013 10:12:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] cmevla as a class of brivla
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The problem with jokes in philosophy is that they often turn out to be new =
theories, unrecognized even by the original joker.=A0 taDA!

And, of course, you miss the crucial point that it is not clear that {la ts=
ani be zo'e} does identify the same referent as {la tsani}; the buried assu=
mption, that sumti-tails behave the same after {la} as after {le}, is one o=
f the items in dispute.=A0=20


________________________________
 From: "Bob LeChevalier, President and Founder - LLG" <lojbab@lojban.org>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com=20
Sent: Sunday, June 9, 2013 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: [lojban] cmevla as a class of brivla
=20

selpa'i wrote:
>> I am saying that as far as Lojban is concerned "{la tsani} and {la tsani
>> be zo'e}" are linguistically equivalent, and there is no way to say "la
>> tsani" such that it DOESN'T include a possible value in the unspecified
>> places; they are there and they are "zo'e", if nothing else.
>=20
> I understand your position. However, I doubt la tsani would agree that
> his name is "tsani be zo'e".

I'm on the point of asking "why should I care what la tsani would agree tha=
t his name is?"=A0 His legal name is whatever the government accepts as his=
 legal name.=A0 His name in usage is whatever someone chooses to call him.

> It's not the same name as it is a different string of sounds.

It doesn't matter whether it is the same name.=A0 All a name is, is a metho=
d of identifying a referent.=A0 All names which identify the same referent =
are names for that referent.

>> And dotside or no dotside, I will never accept someone's choice of name
>> to be "la" %^)
>=20
> That's your private business, but don't expect everyone else to follow
> your personal preference here.

You seem unable to recognize a joke even if explicitly marked as one.

lojbab
-- Bob LeChevalier=A0 =A0 lojbab@lojban.org=A0 =A0 www.lojban.org
President and Founder, The Logical Language Group, Inc.

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<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:ti=
mes new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt">The problem with joke=
s in philosophy is that they often turn out to be new theories, unrecognize=
d even by the original joker.&nbsp; taDA!<br><br>And, of course, you miss t=
he crucial point that it is not clear that {la tsani be zo'e} does identify=
 the same referent as {la tsani}; the buried assumption, that sumti-tails b=
ehave the same after {la} as after {le}, is one of the items in dispute.&nb=
sp; <br><div><span><br></span></div><div><br></div>  <div style=3D"font-fam=
ily: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style=
=3D"font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"=
> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <hr size=3D"1">  <font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"> <b><s=
pan style=3D"font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> "Bob LeChevalier, Presiden=
t and Founder - LLG" &lt;lojbab@lojban.org&gt;<br> <b><span style=3D"font-w=
eight:
 bold;">To:</span></b> lojban@googlegroups.com <br> <b><span style=3D"font-=
weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Sunday, June 9, 2013 11:48 AM<br> <b><span =
style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [lojban] cmevla as a c=
lass of brivla<br> </font> </div> <div class=3D"y_msg_container"><br>
selpa'i wrote:<br>&gt;&gt; I am saying that as far as Lojban is concerned "=
{la tsani} and {la tsani<br>&gt;&gt; be zo'e}" are linguistically equivalen=
t, and there is no way to say "la<br>&gt;&gt; tsani" such that it DOESN'T i=
nclude a possible value in the unspecified<br>&gt;&gt; places; they are the=
re and they are "zo'e", if nothing else.<br>&gt; <br>&gt; I understand your=
 position. However, I doubt la tsani would agree that<br>&gt; his name is "=
tsani be zo'e".<br><br>I'm on the point of asking "why should I care what l=
a tsani would agree that his name is?"&nbsp; His legal name is whatever the=
 government accepts as his legal name.&nbsp; His name in usage is whatever =
someone chooses to call him.<br><br>&gt; It's not the same name as it is a =
different string of sounds.<br><br>It doesn't matter whether it is the same=
 name.&nbsp; All a name is, is a method of identifying a referent.&nbsp; Al=
l names which identify the same referent are names for that
 referent.<br><br>&gt;&gt; And dotside or no dotside, I will never accept s=
omeone's choice of name<br>&gt;&gt; to be "la" %^)<br>&gt; <br>&gt; That's =
your private business, but don't expect everyone else to follow<br>&gt; you=
r personal preference here.<br><br>You seem unable to recognize a joke even=
 if explicitly marked as one.<br><br>lojbab<br>-- Bob LeChevalier&nbsp; &nb=
sp; <a ymailto=3D"mailto:lojbab@lojban.org" href=3D"mailto:lojbab@lojban.or=
g">lojbab@lojban.org</a>&nbsp; &nbsp; <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://w=
ww.lojban.org/">www.lojban.org</a><br>President and Founder, The Logical La=
nguage Group, Inc.<br><br>-- You received this message because you are subs=
cribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.<br>To unsubscribe from this gro=
up and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+<a ymailto=3D=
"mailto:unsubscribe@googlegroups.com" href=3D"mailto:unsubscribe@googlegrou=
ps.com">unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>To post to this group, send em=
ail
 to <a ymailto=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com" href=3D"mailto:lojban@goo=
glegroups.com">lojban@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>Visit this group at http://g=
roups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.<br>For more options, visit <a href=
=3D"https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out" target=3D"_blank">https://gro=
ups.google.com/groups/opt_out</a>.<br><br><br><br><br></div> </div> </div> =
 </div></body></html>

<p></p>

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