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Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2013 11:57:37 -0600
Message-ID: <CAMKwHj0EwOtqDfJWbhztP-Ues+jS_rT-WaXHq26m3EkWjOsQpQ@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] cmevla as a class of brivla
From: Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>
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On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 6:20 AM, selpa'i <seladwa@gmx.de> wrote:

> la .lojbab. cu cusku di'e
>
>> Those exceptions are in fact significant - they are examples of the
>>
>> brivla (or whatever word) being taken as a string of symbols/sounds that
>> exists on it own regardless of which word or kind of word that it is. It
>> would seem that you want names to be another example of a string of
>> symbols taken as such a standalone language unit.
>>
>
> Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying they are. I thought I had made that
> clear. A name is a word (or multiple words) used to refer to some entity,
> irrespective of what that word might mean.
>
>
>  But that isn't the case for Lojban.
>>
>
> You seem to be alone in thinking that (see other people's responses).
>

He's not.


> As you say, {zo tsani} is just the "standalone language unit" "tsani", the
> word itself, without any hidden places. But the accepted definition of {la}
> is:
>
> la broda == lo selcme be zo broda
>
> So you must have a different definition of {la} than everyone else.
>
>
>  I am saying that as far as Lojban is concerned "{la tsani} and {la tsani
>> be zo'e}" are linguistically equivalent, and there is no way to say "la
>> tsani" such that it DOESN'T include a possible value in the unspecified
>> places; they are there and they are "zo'e", if nothing else.
>>
>
> I understand your position. However, I doubt la tsani would agree that his
> name is "tsani be zo'e". It's not the same name as it is a different string
> of sounds.
>
>
>  And dotside or no dotside, I will never accept someone's choice of name
>> to be "la" %^)
>>
>
> That's your private business, but don't expect everyone else to follow
> your personal preference here. I also don't see how dotside is relevant to
> this.
>
>
> mu'o mi'e la selpa'i
>
> --
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>
>
>


-- 
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 6:20 AM, selpa&#39;i <spa=
n dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:seladwa@gmx.de" target=3D"_blank">selad=
wa@gmx.de</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class=3D"im">la .lojbab. cu cusku di&#39;e<br>
</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-l=
eft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Those exceptions are in fact significant - they are examples of the<div cla=
ss=3D"im"><br>
brivla (or whatever word) being taken as a string of symbols/sounds that<br=
>
exists on it own regardless of which word or kind of word that it is. It<br=
>
would seem that you want names to be another example of a string of<br>
symbols taken as such a standalone language unit.<br>
</div></blockquote>
<br>
Yes, that&#39;s exactly what I&#39;m saying they are. I thought I had made =
that clear. A name is a word (or multiple words) used to refer to some enti=
ty, irrespective of what that word might mean.<div class=3D"im"><br>
<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
But that isn&#39;t the case for Lojban.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
You seem to be alone in thinking that (see other people&#39;s responses).<b=
r></blockquote><div><br>He&#39;s not.<br>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmai=
l_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left=
:1ex">


As you say, {zo tsani} is just the &quot;standalone language unit&quot; &qu=
ot;tsani&quot;, the word itself, without any hidden places. But the accepte=
d definition of {la} is:<br>
<br>
la broda =3D=3D lo selcme be zo broda<br>
<br>
So you must have a different definition of {la} than everyone else.<div cla=
ss=3D"im"><br>
<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I am saying that as far as Lojban is concerned &quot;{la tsani} and {la tsa=
ni<br>
be zo&#39;e}&quot; are linguistically equivalent, and there is no way to sa=
y &quot;la<br>
tsani&quot; such that it DOESN&#39;T include a possible value in the unspec=
ified<br>
places; they are there and they are &quot;zo&#39;e&quot;, if nothing else.<=
br>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
I understand your position. However, I doubt la tsani would agree that his =
name is &quot;tsani be zo&#39;e&quot;. It&#39;s not the same name as it is =
a different string of sounds.<div class=3D"im"><br>
<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
And dotside or no dotside, I will never accept someone&#39;s choice of name=
<br>
to be &quot;la&quot; %^)<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
That&#39;s your private business, but don&#39;t expect everyone else to fol=
low your personal preference here. I also don&#39;t see how dotside is rele=
vant to this.<div class=3D"im HOEnZb"><br>
<br>
mu&#39;o mi&#39;e la selpa&#39;i<br>
<br></div><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5">
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>
<br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>mu&#39;o mi=
&#39;e .aionys.<br><br>.i.e&#39;ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l=
uk. mi patfu do zo&#39;o<br>(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. =
:D )<br>

<p></p>

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