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Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2013 15:00:05 -0300
Message-ID: <CAO7tK2fE98t0DdLCnrYN1NOLF57BP=zHfXoTH=2ExCE1nA_7Aw@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] cmevla as a class of brivla
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= <jjllambias@gmail.com>
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On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 2:19 PM, Betsemes <betsemes@gmail.com> wrote:

> I see something strange here that I hope everyone help me to sort out.
> Within this thread I have read the following:
>
> On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 8:01 AM, Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > The name is the selbri, but there is a sense in which the first argumen=
t
> is
> > selected, as with other gadri. In Spanish we have the names "Amado" and
> > "Amador". We could "translate" these as "la selpa'i" and "la prami".
>
> On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 7:30 AM, Bob LeChevalier, President and Founder -
> LLG
> > I wasn't talking about meaning, actually.  I was talking about grammar.
>  A
> > brivla automatically invokes grammatically the attachment of places
> (except
> > when quoted with zo, or used as a delimiter in a zoi quote).
>
> On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 8:20 AM, selpa'i <seladwa@gmx.de> wrote:
> > As you say, {zo tsani} is just the "standalone language unit" "tsani",
> the
> > word itself, without any hidden places. But the accepted definition of
> {la}
> > is:
> >
> > la broda =3D=3D lo selcme be zo broda
> >
> > So you must have a different definition of {la} than everyone else.
>
> xorxes explanation on "a sense" in which {la} selects the first
> argument of the selbri being used as a name, is in conflict with
> Selpa'i's stated definition of "la broda". In order for a {la} to be
> able to select the x1 of a selbri, it must be a selbri, but if it's a
> quoted word as Selpa'i's definition seems to tell, then it's just a
> string of words devoided of meaning. Could someone clarify?
>

 "la" removes the meaning of the words, but the choice of those particular
words as a name, before their meaning was removed, was not innocent.  The
words could have been chosen, at least in part, for their meaning, not just
for their sound, and what the x1 of that selbri is is relevant to that
meaning, because it informs the choice between, for example "selpa'i" and
"prami" as potential names.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 2:19 PM, Betsemes <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:betsemes@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">betsemes@gmail.com</a>&gt;=
</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I see something strange here that I hope eve=
ryone help me to sort out.<br>
Within this thread I have read the following:<br>
<br>
On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 8:01 AM, Jorge Llamb=EDas &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jjll=
ambias@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jjllambias@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; The name is the selbri, but there is a sense in which the first argume=
nt is<br>
&gt; selected, as with other gadri. In Spanish we have the names &quot;Amad=
o&quot; and<br>
&gt; &quot;Amador&quot;. We could &quot;translate&quot; these as &quot;la s=
elpa&#39;i&quot; and &quot;la prami&quot;.<br>
<br>
On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 7:30 AM, Bob LeChevalier, President and Founder - LL=
G<br>
<div>&gt; I wasn&#39;t talking about meaning, actually. =A0I was talking ab=
out grammar. =A0A<br>
&gt; brivla automatically invokes grammatically the attachment of places (e=
xcept<br>
&gt; when quoted with zo, or used as a delimiter in a zoi quote).<br>
<br>
</div>On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 8:20 AM, selpa&#39;i &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sel=
adwa@gmx.de" target=3D"_blank">seladwa@gmx.de</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; As you say, {zo tsani} is just the &quot;standalone language unit&quot=
; &quot;tsani&quot;, the<br>
&gt; word itself, without any hidden places. But the accepted definition of=
 {la}<br>
<div>&gt; is:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; la broda =3D=3D lo selcme be zo broda<br>
&gt;<br>
</div>&gt; So you must have a different definition of {la} than everyone el=
se.<br>
<br>
xorxes explanation on &quot;a sense&quot; in which {la} selects the first<b=
r>
argument of the selbri being used as a name, is in conflict with<br>
Selpa&#39;i&#39;s stated definition of &quot;la broda&quot;. In order for a=
 {la} to be<br>
able to select the x1 of a selbri, it must be a selbri, but if it&#39;s a<b=
r>
quoted word as Selpa&#39;i&#39;s definition seems to tell, then it&#39;s ju=
st a<br>
string of words devoided of meaning. Could someone clarify?<br></blockquote=
><div><br></div><div>=A0&quot;la&quot; removes the meaning of the words, bu=
t the choice of those particular words as a name, before their meaning was =
removed, was not innocent. =A0The words could have been chosen, at least in=
 part, for their meaning, not just for their sound, and what the x1 of that=
 selbri is is relevant to that meaning, because it informs the choice betwe=
en, for example &quot;selpa&#39;i&quot; and &quot;prami&quot; as potential =
names.=A0</div>

<div><br></div><div>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e xorxes</div><div><br></div></div></di=
v></div>

<p></p>

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