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Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2013 18:09:40 -0300
Message-ID: <CAO7tK2fwYJQcj9QPZ4Bo7r+yYE-B9-gauEWWHg8CPFNE_hU9MA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] cmevla as a class of brivla
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On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 5:58 PM, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>wrote:

>   In the present case, xorxes, while moving toward including cmevla among
> brivla, takes the fact that LA and LE take the identically specified
> sumti-tails to infer that they treat them the same way, so the name applies
> to the first argument just as the description does (though he admits that
> the application may not be as direct in the LA as in the case of LE --
> except, of course, when the sumti-tail is a cmevla, when it is direct and
> veridical and all those good things.
>

That doesn't seem to fit my opinion at all. I agree with selpa'i, tsani,
and CLL on this.


> Lojbab, keeping the two separate, still thinks that LA treats sumti-tails
> just like LE does; in this case, by including all the implicit {zo'e}
> (though he admits tsani might not want to recognize that as his name nor
> anyone use it of him).  Finally, selpa'i (having been told collectively by
> xorxes and Lojbab that he is someone's beloved, like it or not)
>

Huh? I don't have any reason to doubt he is someone's beloved, but I would
never infer that from his name.


maintains that LA in fact treats sumti-tails differently from the way LE
> does, name taking them as mere words without any necessary connection to
> their normal meaning or grammar.
>

And that's the only sensible position, and also the official one as
presented in CLL. The position you attribute to Lojbab is close to
incomprehensible to me.

 mu'o mi'e xorxes

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 5:58 PM, John E Clifford <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:kali9putra@yahoo.com" target=3D"_blank">kali9putra@yahoo.com</=
a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-famil=
y:times new roman,new york,times,serif">=A0 In the present case, xorxes, wh=
ile moving toward including cmevla among brivla, takes the fact that LA and=
 LE take the identically specified sumti-tails to infer that they treat the=
m the same way, so the name applies to the first argument just as the descr=
iption does (though he admits that the application may not be as direct in =
the
 LA as in the case of LE -- except, of course, when the sumti-tail is a cme=
vla, when it is direct and veridical and all those good things.=A0</div></d=
iv></blockquote><div><br></div><div style>That doesn&#39;t seem to fit my o=
pinion at all. I agree with selpa&#39;i, tsani, and CLL on this.</div>
<div><br></div><div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div style=
=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif"> Lojba=
b, keeping the two separate, still thinks that LA treats sumti-tails just l=
ike LE does; in this case, by including all the implicit {zo&#39;e} (though=
 he admits tsani might not want to recognize that as his name nor anyone us=
e it of him).=A0 Finally, selpa&#39;i (having been told collectively by xor=
xes and Lojbab that he is someone&#39;s beloved, like it or not) </div>
</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div style>Huh? I don&#39;t have any reas=
on to doubt he is someone&#39;s beloved, but I would never infer that from =
his name.</div><div>=A0</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot=
e" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div><div style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:times new roman,new york,time=
s,serif">maintains that LA in fact treats sumti-tails differently from the =
way LE does, name taking them as mere words without any necessary connectio=
n to their normal meaning or grammar.=A0 </div>
</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div style>And that&#39;s the only sensib=
le position, and also the official one as presented in CLL. The position yo=
u attribute to Lojbab is close to incomprehensible to me.</div><div><br>
</div><div style>=A0mu&#39;o mi&#39;e xorxes</div><div style><br></div></di=
v></div></div>

<p></p>

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