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Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2013 18:55:48 -0300
Message-ID: <CAO7tK2d4AMza2PhEtpujt-e4iKoqwpBMZe=yYvTHmyPaBM9KoQ@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] cmevla as a class of brivla
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On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 6:31 PM, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>wrote:

> As for your position, you have said it explicitly several times: {la
> tsani} refers to the first place of {tsani}.
>

I'm pretty sure I never said that. "la tsani" refers to a person, not to
the first place of a predicate. I do think however that what the first
argument of a selbri chosen as a name is is relevant to the choice of that
word as a name. We wouldn't have so many people choosing names that begin
with sel- if that was not the case.

You do manage to wiggle a lot on that, making {la} even vaguer than {le}.
> The point is that, if you really agree with the view that {la} just uses
> the word detached from its semantics and syntax as much as may be, you have
> no ground for talking about the first place of the predicate that word
> happens most normally to be.  But in talking about selpa'i you placed him
> in the first position and Lb supplied the second.
>

I said that the reason he chose the name "selpa'i" rather than the name
"prami" was probably not just because he liked the sound more. The
different meanings of the two predicates (reflected only in the order of
their arguments) probably had something to do with his choice. If I
remember correctly, la selckiku chose his name because of his relationship
with someone named Key in English.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 6:31 PM, John E Clifford <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:kali9putra@yahoo.com" target=3D"_blank">kali9putra@yahoo.com</=
a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;p=
adding-left:1ex"><div><div style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&#39;times n=
ew roman&#39;,&#39;new york&#39;,times,serif">
<div><span style=3D"background-color:transparent">As for your position, you=
 have said it explicitly several times: {la
 tsani} refers to the first place of {tsani}.=A0 </span></div></div></div><=
/blockquote><div><br></div><div style>I&#39;m pretty sure I never said that=
. &quot;la tsani&quot; refers to a person, not to the first place of a pred=
icate. I do think however that what the first argument of a selbri chosen a=
s a name is is relevant to the choice of that word as a name. We wouldn&#39=
;t have so many people choosing names that begin with sel- if that was not =
the case.</div>
<div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0p=
x 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-lef=
t-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-fami=
ly:&#39;times new roman&#39;,&#39;new york&#39;,times,serif">
<div><span style=3D"background-color:transparent">You do manage to wiggle a=
 lot on that, making {la} even vaguer than {le}.=A0 The point is that, if y=
ou really agree with the view that {la} just uses the word detached from it=
s semantics and syntax as much as may be, you have no ground for talking ab=
out the first place of the predicate that word happens most normally to be.=
=A0 But in talking about selpa&#39;i you placed him in the first position a=
nd Lb supplied the second. =A0</span></div>
</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div style>I said that the reason h=
e chose the name &quot;selpa&#39;i&quot; rather than the name &quot;prami&q=
uot; was probably not just because he liked the sound more. The different m=
eanings of the two predicates (reflected only in the order of their argumen=
ts) probably had something to do with his choice. If I remember correctly, =
la selckiku chose his name because of his relationship with someone named K=
ey in English.</div>
<div style><br></div><div style>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e xorxes</div><div style><b=
r></div></div></div></div>

<p></p>

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