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Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2013 22:26:23 -0400
Message-ID: <CA+gZtg+fhT2G7z=zF30uCvEWj8CJvXHxUSbkapzrKZQqKJeyNw@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] cmevla as a class of brivla
From: Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com>
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On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 10:15 PM, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>wrote:

> Ah, use-mention.  In order to mention a name, you have to use a name of
> that name (or some other device, but we;re in names here).  So xorxes has
> it right here, using English conventions, to talk about the name next
> *displayed*: la'o gy Starbucks gy  he uses the name of that name, here
> displayed:"la'o gy Starbucks gy". possibly including a bit too much, in the
> form of {la'o}.  Ian avoids the contentious issue of {la'o}, but now double
> quotes, getting too far up the scale.  He wants to talk about the names
> here displayed: gy Starbucks gy ,djan smit,  selpa'i.
> To do that, he needs names of them, quotation names under Lojban
> conventions, namely  zoi gy Starbucks gy,  lu djan smit, zo selpa'i.  But
> rather than using these he uses the quotation names of these, using
> metaLojban conventions, and thus talks not about the names he intended but
> about their quotation names, which refer, of course to other quotation
> names, not Starbucks, John Smith and whoever selpa'i is.
>
The quotes are just to deal with the fact that I'm speaking Lojban in an
English discourse, that's all. This is a complete non-issue in Lojban
discourse.

mi'e la latro'a mu'o

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Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On S=
un, Jun 9, 2013 at 10:15 PM, John E Clifford <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:kali9putra@yahoo.com" target=3D"_blank">kali9putra@yahoo.com</a>=
&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D"h5">Ah, use-mention.=A0 I=
n order to mention a name, you have to use a name of that name (or some oth=
er device, but we;re in names here).=A0 So xorxes has it right here, using =
English conventions, to talk about the name next *displayed*: la&#39;o gy S=
tarbucks gy=A0 he uses the name of that name, here displayed:&quot;la&#39;o=
 gy Starbucks gy&quot;. possibly including a bit too much, in the form of {=
la&#39;o}.=A0 Ian avoids the contentious issue of {la&#39;o}, but now doubl=
e quotes, getting too far up the scale.=A0 He wants to talk about the names=
 here displayed: gy Starbucks gy ,djan smit,=A0 selpa&#39;i.<br>
To do that, he needs names of them, quotation names under Lojban convention=
s, namely=A0 zoi gy Starbucks gy,=A0 lu djan smit, zo selpa&#39;i.=A0 But r=
ather than using these he uses the quotation names of these, using metaLojb=
an
 conventions, and thus talks not about the names he intended but about thei=
r quotation names, which refer, of course to other quotation names, not Sta=
rbucks, John Smith and whoever selpa&#39;i is.=A0=A0</div></div></blockquot=
e>
<div>The quotes are just to deal with the fact that I&#39;m speaking Lojban=
 in an English discourse, that&#39;s all. This is a complete non-issue in L=
ojban discourse.<br><br>mi&#39;e la latro&#39;a mu&#39;o <br></div></div>
<br></div></div>

<p></p>

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