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Sun, 09 Jun 2013 21:18:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-la0-x233.google.com (mail-la0-x233.google.com [2a00:1450:4010:c03::233]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ev8si576734bkc.1.2013.06.09.21.18.06 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 09 Jun 2013 21:18:06 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4010:c03::233 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:4010:c03::233; Received: by mail-la0-f51.google.com with SMTP id fq12so5099476lab.10 for ; Sun, 09 Jun 2013 21:18:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.219.68 with SMTP id pm4mr5766548lbc.10.1370837886219; Sun, 09 Jun 2013 21:18:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.21.38 with HTTP; Sun, 9 Jun 2013 21:18:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1370831503.58833.YahooMailNeo@web184405.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <51A6685C.3010505@lojban.org> <51A8680E.7040103@lojban.org> <51A8F326.2020901@lojban.org> <51A8F89D.2040408@gmx.de> <51B00097.8080004@lojban.org> <51B06D24.6020102@gmx.de> <51B46762.8080509@lojban.org> <51B47305.4020704@gmx.de> <20130609133526.GD24964@samsa.fritz.box> <51B48B09.2080709@gmx.de> <1370788283.82111.YahooMailNeo@web184401.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1370797620.87480.YahooMailNeo@web184406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1370809200.78493.YahooMailNeo@web184405.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1370812584.19070.YahooMailNeo@web184405.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1370831503.58833.YahooMailNeo@web184405.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2013 22:18:06 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] cmevla as a class of brivla From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4010:c03::233 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c31c3440befe04dec511c1 X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --001a11c31c3440befe04dec511c1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dot Side, so far as I know, is a direct result of http://www.lojban.org/tiki/The+Case+Against+LA And all it does is make it so that all cmevla are always required to have a '.' before and after to delimit them, whereas before, cmevla which began with a consonant were not required to have a '.' /preceding/ them when they were immediately preceded by doi, la, lai, or la'i. So, not Dot-Side: mi'e.aionys. doi.aionys. la.aionys. mi'e.djan. doi djan. la djan. la doitclynd. -- {la doitcland.} is illegal. Dot-Side: mi'e.aionys. doi.aionys. la.aionys. mi'e.djan. doi.djan. la.djan. la.doitcland. On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 8:31 PM, John E Clifford wrote= : > I have traced the origins of dotside prime back as far as a description o= f > an early stage of xorban, where it is embedded in a mass of other ideas, > which are not sourced (though I recognize some as xorxes' and some as &'s= ) > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Jorge Llamb=EDas > *To:* lojban@googlegroups.com > *Sent:* Sunday, June 9, 2013 4:25 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [lojban] cmevla as a class of brivla > > > On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 6:16 PM, John E Clifford wro= te: > > > And the predicate here created means? Presumably the composition rules > still applies (if not, there is yet another problem) so, lacking any othe= r > information this means "is John-Paul" or "is John and Paul", though what > {ui zei pi'o} means (and why we would want it) is beyond me. > > > As with any lujvo, the meaning would have to be looked up in the > dictionary. The form is available, but that doesn't mean it will be used. > > > My understanding of the cumulative effect of dotside is that every *name* > must be surrounded by glottal stops > > > A common misunderstanding, but still a misunderstanding. > > > (which otherwise do not except between final and initial vowels, i.e., > phonemically conditioned). Thus, {.paris.rom.} is distinct from {. paris > rom.} > > No, If there is no pause between "paris" and "rom" it must be written > "parisrom". If it is written "paris rom" then the pause between them is > obligatory, whether or not a dot is written. > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > --=20 mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --001a11c31c3440befe04dec511c1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dot Side, so far as I know, is a direct result of http://www.lojban.org/tiki/The+Case+Again= st+LA

And all it does is make it so that all cmevla are always r= equired to have a '.' before and after to delimit them, whereas bef= ore, cmevla which began with a consonant were not required to have a '.= ' /preceding/ them when they were immediately preceded by doi, la, lai,= or la'i.

So, not Dot-Side:

mi'e.aionys.=A0=A0 doi.aionys.=A0=A0 la.ai= onys.
mi'e.djan.=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 doi djan.=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 la djan.=

la doitclynd. -- {la doitcland.} is illegal.

Dot-Side:
mi'e.aionys.=A0=A0 doi.aionys.=A0=A0 la.aionys.
mi'e.djan.=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 doi.djan.=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 la.djan.

l= a.doitcland.

On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 8:31 = PM, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wrote:
I have traced the origins of dotsid= e prime back as far as a description of an early stage of xorban, where it = is embedded in a mass of other ideas, which are not sourced (though I recog= nize some as xorxes' and some as &'s)


From: Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sunday, June 9,= 2013 4:25 PM

Sub= ject: Re: [lojban] cmevla as a class of brivla


On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 6:16 PM, John E Cliff= ord <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wrote:

And the predicate here created means?=A0 Presumably t= he composition rules still applies (if not, there is yet another problem) s= o, lacking any other information this means "is John-Paul" or &qu= ot;is John and Paul", though what {ui zei pi'o} means (and why we = would want it) is beyond me.

As with any lujvo, the meaning= would have to be looked up in the dictionary. The form is available, but t= hat doesn't mean it will be used.
=A0

My understanding of the cumulative effect of do= tside is that every *name* must be surrounded by glottal stops

A common misunderstanding, but still= a misunderstanding.
=A0
(which otherwise do not except between final and initial vowels, i.e., = phonemically conditioned).=A0 Thus, {.paris.rom.} is distinct from {. paris= rom.}

No, If there is no pause betwe= en "paris" and "rom" it must be written "parisrom&= quot;. If it is written "paris rom" then the pause between them i= s obligatory, whether or not a dot is written.

mu'o mi'e xorxes
=A0
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
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Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
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=A0
=A0


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
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For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
=A0
=A0



--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

--
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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
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