Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 66.94.236.255 as permitted sender) client-ip=66.94.236.255;
References: <CAHxnAmJvBZ1_4S1OF45n3dd5g2iQmFEGiQbsyBTN6PwybsNkrA@mail.gmail.com> <51A379EF.3020803@gmx.de> <CAHxnAm+HZGvy=Ck9nvogsR_uHL=+BYPho6vDKe8WGp-H4xKmEA@mail.gmail.com> <51A6685C.3010505@lojban.org> <CAMKwHj3gpou-t-6wPOLP7TCXdGhVGU2z+H-z4g=yGJK8Yg2gEg@mail.gmail.com> <51A8680E.7040103@lojban.org> <CAMKwHj3+aWwW0E3QP271aRNP8oKMy9hNDipjypX6hhJkauM+_A@mail.gmail.com> <51A8F326.2020901@lojban.org> <51A8F89D.2040408@gmx.de> <51B00097.8080004@lojban.org> <51B06D24.6020102@gmx.de> <51B46762.8080509@lojban.org> <51B47305.4020704@gmx.de> <CAHxnAmLDUzkGG14rFY9i-TUoOsBwEobXzj+dRV5GOZ-zqg2LNg@mail.gmail.com> <1370811519.81380.YahooMailNeo@web184403.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <CAO7tK2fwYJQcj9QPZ4Bo7r+yYE-B9-gauEWWHg8CPFNE_hU9MA@mail.gmail.com> <1370813476.27765.YahooMailNeo@web184405.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <CA+gZtgKe_m8+sbokF2X6UtHzqh6LP9qk64NTDYp1SpYzzdcAog@mail.gmail.com> <1370830982.63258.YahooMailNeo@web184401.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <CA+gZtgJyXrgQmewdd-9gVMwRDG3Ci4DRH3BWuwMbo8GZgyzqzA@mail.gmail.com> <1370832461.62717.YahooMailNeo@web184404.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <CA+gZtgL0dKH1XKuxNLWGb5X1DZGFdWBJpB7asi51pH7TaALQGw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1370869006.79181.YahooMailNeo@web184405.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 05:56:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] cmevla as a class of brivla
To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" <lojban@googlegroups.com>
In-Reply-To: <CA+gZtgL0dKH1XKuxNLWGb5X1DZGFdWBJpB7asi51pH7TaALQGw@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com
Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-1412092350-633439443-1370869006=:79181"
X-Spam_score: 0.0
X-Spam_score_int: 0
X-Spam_bar: /

---1412092350-633439443-1370869006=:79181
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Note that, at the best of times, your suggestion always puts in {zi'o}, whi=
ch is usually just wrong (although not terribly damaging).=A0 You probably =
mean {a} or, better, {onai}.=A0 But the point is that you don't get a choic=
e; you have to have an automatic procedure for putting something in, and (u=
nless the procedure is much more complicated) the same thing each time.


________________________________
 From: Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com=20
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 2:44 AM
Subject: Re: [lojban] cmevla as a class of brivla
=20


On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 10:47 PM, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wro=
te:

Yes, that is what {zi'o} does=A0 -- when it is overtly given.=A0 But it can=
not be slipped in after the utterance to clean up the mess and that is the =
case at hand.
If you adopt the convention that I mentioned earlier where empty places are=
 understood as {zi'o .u zo'e}, it's not even "slipped in", it's just there =
in the first place.

mi'e la latro'a mu'o=A0
--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.


---1412092350-633439443-1370869006=:79181
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:ti=
mes new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span>Note that,=
 at the best of times, your suggestion always puts in {zi'o}, which is usua=
lly just wrong (although not terribly damaging).&nbsp; You probably mean {a=
} or, better, {onai}.&nbsp; But the point is that you don't get a choice; y=
ou have to have an automatic procedure for putting something in, and (unles=
s the procedure is much more complicated) the same thing each time.</span><=
/div><div><br></div>  <div style=3D"font-family: times new roman, new york,=
 times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style=3D"font-family: times new roma=
n, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <hr size=3D=
"1">  <font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold;"=
>From:</span></b> Ian Johnson &lt;blindbravado@gmail.com&gt;<br> <b><span s=
tyle=3D"font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> lojban@googlegroups.com <br> <b>=
<span
 style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Monday, June 10, 2013 2:44 A=
M<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [lojban=
] cmevla as a class of brivla<br> </font> </div> <div class=3D"y_msg_contai=
ner"><br>
<div id=3D"yiv425167629"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 10:47 PM, =
John E Clifford <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto=
:kali9putra@yahoo.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:kali9putra@yahoo.co=
m">kali9putra@yahoo.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><div class=3D"yiv425167629=
gmail_extra"><div class=3D"yiv425167629gmail_quote">
<blockquote class=3D"yiv425167629gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bo=
rder-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div style=3D"font-size:12pt;fo=
nt-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;">Yes, that is what {zi'o=
} does&nbsp; -- when it is overtly given.&nbsp; But it cannot be slipped in=
 after the utterance to clean up the mess and that is the case at hand.</di=
v>
</blockquote><div style=3D"">If you adopt the convention that I mentioned e=
arlier where empty places are understood as {zi'o .u zo'e}, it's not even "=
slipped in", it's just there in the first place.</div>
<div style=3D""><br></div><div style=3D"">mi'e la latro'a mu'o&nbsp;</div><=
/div></div></div>


-- <br>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.<br>
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.<br>
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.<br>
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.<br>
For more options, visit <a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"https=
://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out">https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_o=
ut</a>.<br>
&nbsp;<br>
&nbsp;<br>
</div><br><br></div> </div> </div>  </div></body></html>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;lojban&quot; group.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.<br />
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.<br />
Visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3De=
n">http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den</a>.<br />
For more options, visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out=
">https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out</a>.<br />
&nbsp;<br />
&nbsp;<br />

---1412092350-633439443-1370869006=:79181--